> Kathleen Wells

This information is misleading, naturally How many Irish indentured servants and how many Blacks slaves in total and how many years. And, how did the Irish treat Blacks, at the turn of the century

  • Carmen Harris

    Photography didn’t exist in the 17th century (1600s). So who are these people you’re trying to pass off as slaves? As law made clear See 1705 VA law, servitude is for a time and only affects the person. Slavery is LIFE and is passed on to one’s children.

    Further if you’ve ever seen a diagram slave ship, you would know that there isn’t any room for anyone to be up under slaves.

    You should also check out Liam Hogan an Irish historian who writes about this myth.

  • jemjean

    I’ve always said, whites have suffered as much as any other group. Blacks want to make slavery all about them b/c it’s used as a free pass. But we have all been exploited and mistreated and killed by the richest people of any culture. It’s not race that separates us, it’s failure to acknowledge that it’s a class problem. Whites are tired of hearing blacks whine about being treated differently b/c they’re black. They’re treated differently b/c of how they respond.

  • bach_on

    Identured slaves usually had an expiration date on their slavery. That was not the usual case with Black Slaves. They were only freed if someone bought them, And the owners traded them like animals. Family units were often split apart. Don’t tell me it was humane. I’ll never accept that.

  • Maria

    Well that’s not news to Caribbean people …. We always learnt in West Indian history that some of the earliest slaves were European, usually convicts or people falsely accused of crimes, political activists, poor, indigent, etc,. However they could not bear the awful back breaking labor in blistering heat so Africans were brought in to work the plantations as they were perceived to be stronger and more able. When Europeans first arrived in the region the Native populations had served as a source for slave labour, however they were being decimated rapidly due to abuse and exposure to diseases, in fact the famous Spanish priest – Bartolome de Las Casas – was one of the first to propose enslaving Africans for plantations in the New World as the native population decreased swiftly. BTW, my ancestry includes all of the above…

  • Lorraine Smith

    The reason they stopped using Irish or white slaves because it was too easy for them to disappear into the general population. Would not happen with black slaves UNTIL the white owners started having children by them, then those who could passed as white so they STILL got away. I have several instances in my own family as proof

  • Ace Thelin

    Great article.

  • ME

    There is one thing everyone here is forgetting: the African American struggle for civil rights is NOT ancient history, it is very recent history and in many ways, is still taking place. I was a child during the 60s, but I saw the news every night, so I remember. I’m not commenting on the accuracy of this article, though yes, there was a time when the Irish suffered from indentured servitude and then discrimination, but many immigrants suffered similarly. Do I need to cite Chinese labor on railroads and European immigrant women and children exploited by sweat shops and dying of disease in slums? Besides, African American slavery went on for nearly 300 years. But for the Irish, discrimination is LONG over. Then again, try to imagine being considered a lesser human being based on your skin color.

  • larry

    “No Blacks, Dogs or Irish” – signs commonly displayed during the 19th and 20th century. Listed below dogs for gosh sake!

  • dread

    I beg to differ. Indentureship is not the frisame as enslavement. Yes it was close, yes the indentured servants were ill treated like most labourers were in those days. However it cannot compare to African slavery. By the way I dont think it is accurate to say the first slaves were imported in 1619. African slaves were transported directly from Africa to the Americas from 1518.

  • dread

    I mean … is not the SAME as enslavement. Typo error

  • ICallBullShit
  • Bradley Gosser

    minor correction: Anne Glover was the last “witch” hanged, not the first.

  • sarah schmit

    The white Irish slaves rarely were released after their time was up. Their contracts were not honored and each punishment they received was additional time in servitude. Many died waiting to complete their service and suffered every horror equal to that of Black slaves. They were also considered less valuable because they were usually weaker. This history should be taught in every classroom as well as the Barbary Slave Trade which shows that slavery was a trade of all nations and whites were not exempt from the horrors of slavery.

  • skamui

    Ridiculous. You are comparing indentured servitude by choice with slavery by force? Revisionism.

  • Cheri

    Why does any of this matter? People need to stop living in the past. That’s why I like people like Sheriff David Clark and Thomas Sowell and Ben Carson and Condoleezza Rice. They don’t go around whining about what happened over 100 years ago or even 50 years ago. They live for now and became successful because they wanted to. Everybody needs to suck it up and move on.

  • rc8888

    This is interesting. All of my family members who migrated to the U.S. from Italy in 1905 were indentured “share croppers” on a plantation in Mound, Louisiana. They were required to work on the plantation and to purchase all of their food and other supplies from the plantation store at very high prices and to pay rent for their living quarters. I suppose they would have met their obligation to the plantation owner in about 50 years. Unfortunately, my great grandmother died in childbirth and my great grandfather died in an accident, leaving the 5 children to fend for themselves. The oldest child moved the family to Madera, California where they took root and were able to establish themselves as successful members of the community

  • Kathleen Wells

    Yes, the Irish were treated badly. We must realize that we are expecting the word “slavery” to describe the exact same situation /scenario in every circumstance — it does not. Many white folks talk about African slavery — but they are merely uninformed.

    Yes, the word adolescent was termed for Irish gangs, at the turn of the century. And, the term paddy wagon. Cops wouldn’t go into Irish neighborhoods, for fear of being jumped, unless they were 5 or 6 cops deep. 9 year old Irish girls would roam the streets of NYC with syphillis. Irish women on the ships over to the US would sleep in a prone position for fear of being raped. Central Park started as a social experimemt for Irish gangs. There were so many Irish in the prisons that they had to sleep standing with their arms in holsters. The Irish were thick as thieves — and, to illeviate the oppression from the police joined the police force to oppress others — they hired each other and only each other — they joined the ranks of ” whiteness” just like the Jewish gangs and Italian gangs. And, now today we will see the Latinos join the ranks of “whiteness”.

    When we talk about the SYSTEM of white supremacy/racism, we know that slavery was merely one form of it’s application. Next, came convict leasing and Jim and Jane Crow , and now mass incarceration. After mass incarceration white supremacy will take another form.

    Once each group joins the rank of “whiteness” they speak with authority on all subjects, no matter how mediocre and inadquate their knowledge base is — that, right there is proof positive of power and influence of “whiteness”.

  • Olutoye Walrond

    “…the story the history books don’t tell you about”? Which history books? Maybe yours. When I was in school in Barbados we were told about the white indentured servants. We have descendents of them right now in Barbados called “Poor Whites”.

    They were not slaves. Historians all agree that white slavery did not exist in the caribbean. They were not legally classified as property and at the end of their indentureship they were given compensation.

  • Tony O’Donovan

    Would be great to see a properly footnoted version of this article with all sources quoted.

  • superbad2011

    Well, no; this is BS. Indenture is not slavery. They were not sold off; they themselves contracted to do this. You can buy your way out of indenture, and an indenture ends by contract. The living situation may have been similar to slavery, but it was not slavery. It doesn’t matter who had it worse; both were awful, but it was not slavery. This whole line of thinking is BS.

  • Sarah Schmit

    Why is this covered up? If there can be an honest discussion about all slavery we should be able to end the race baiting and unify against all oppression. It is unfair to demonize only whites who have suffered and should not bare the constant BS of white privilege in America.

  • Bobby English

    WHEN HISTORY BOOKS MENTION DUTCH SLAVE SHIPS, THEY DELIBERATELY LEAVE OUT THAT THEY WERE JEWISH DUTCH SLAVE SHIPS!

    WHEN HISTORY BOOKS MENTION CROMWELL, THEY DELIBERATELY FORGET TO MENTION, THAT IT WAS JEWS WHO FINANCED HIS ARMY!

    WHEN HISTORY BOOKS MENTION MOSES, THEY DELIBERATELY LEAVE OUT THE FACT, THAT HE WAS A WAR CRIMINAL (See Numbers 31:13-18).

    THE JEWISH BIBLE IS THE SOURCE OF THE VILE!

  • Bobby English

    THE LONGEST HATRED

    ********

    GENTILES IN HALACHA

    Foreword — Daat Emet

    For a long time we have been considering the necessity of informing our readers about Halacha’s real attitude towards non-Jews. Many untrue things are publicized on this issue and the facts should be made clear. But recently, we were presented with a diligently written article on the subject, authored by a scholar from the Merkaz HaRav yeshiva — so our job was done by others (though we have already discussed some aspects of this issue in the weekly portions of Balak and Matot). Since there is almost no disagreement between us and the author of the article on this issue, we have chosen to bring the article “Jews Are Called ‘Men'” by R’ David Bar-Chayim (in Hebrew) so that the reader will be able to study and understand the attitude of the Halacha towards non-Jews.

    In this article R’ Bar-Chayim discusses the attitude towards “Gentiles” in the Torah and in the Halacha and comes to an unambiguous conclusion:

    “The Torah of Israel makes a clear distinction between a Jew, who is defined as ‘man,’ and a Gentile.”

    That is to say, any notion of equality between human beings is irrelevant to the Halacha. R’ Bar-Chayim’s work is comprehensive, written with intellectual honesty, and deals with almost all the aspects of Halachic treatment of non-Jews. It also refutes the statements of those rabbis who speak out of wishful thinking and, influenced by concepts of modern society, claim that Judaism does not discriminate against people on religious grounds. R’ Bar-Chayim shows that all these people base their constructs NOT on the Torah but solely on the inclinations of their own hearts. He also shows that there are even rabbis who intentionally distort the Halachic attitude to Gentiles, misleading both themselves and the general public.

    For the English readers’ convenience we will briefly mention the topics dealt with in R’ Bar-Chayim’s article:

    Laws in regard to murder, which clearly state that there is Halachic difference between murder of a Jew and of a Gentile (the latter is considered a far less severe crime).

    A ban on desecrating the Sabbath to save the life of a Gentile.

    A Jew’s exemption from liability if his property (e. g. ox) causes damage to a Gentile’s property. But if a Gentile’s property causes damage to a Jew’s property, the Gentile is liable.

    The question of whether robbery of a Gentile is forbidden by the Torah’s law or only by a Rabbinic decree.

    A ban on returning a lost item to a Gentile if the reason for returning it is one’s sympathy towards the Gentile and compassion for him.

    The sum which a Gentile overpays in a business transaction due to his own error is forfeit; whether a Jew is permitted to intentionally deceive a Gentile is also discussed.

    One who kidnaps a Jew is liable to death, but one who kidnaps a Gentile is exempt.

    A Jew who hurts or injures a Gentile is not liable for compensation of damage, but a Gentile who hurts a Jew is liable to death.

    One who overcharges a Gentile ought not return him the sum that the Gentile overpaid.

    A Gentile — or even a convert to Judaism — may not be appointed king or public official of any sort (e. g. a cabinet minister).

    One who defames a female proselyte (claiming that she was not virgin at the time of her marriage) is liable to neither lashes nor fine.

    The prohibition to hate applies only to Jews; one may hate a Gentile.

    One may take revenge against or bear a grudge towards Gentiles; likewise, the commandment “love your neighbour” applies only to Jews, not to Gentiles.

    One who sees Gentile graveyards should curse: “Your mother shall be greatly ashamed…”

    Gentiles are likened to animals.

    If an ox damaged a Gentile maidservant, it should be considered as though the ox damaged a she-ass.

    The dead body of a Gentile does not bear ritual impurity, nor does a Gentile who touches the dead body of a Jew become impure — he is considered like an animal who touched a dead body.

    One is forbidden to pour anointing oil on a Jew, but there is no ban on pouring that oil on a Gentile because Gentiles are likened to animals.

    An animal slaughtered by a Gentile is forbidden, even if the ritual slaughter performed was technically correct, because Gentiles are deemed like animals. (Daat Emet does not agree that this is the Halachic reason for invalidating a Gentile’s ritual slaughter — but this is not the place to delve into the subject).

    Their members are like those of asses” — Gentiles are likened to animals.

    Between the Jews and the Gentiles — In the Aggadah, the Kabbalah, and in Jewish Thought

    R’ Bar-Chayim’s arguments and conclusions are clear, Halachically accurate, and supported by almost all the existent major Halachic works. It would be superfluous to say that R’ Bar-Chayim fully embraces this racist Halachic outlook as the word of the Living G-d, as he himself pointed out in the “Conclusion” of his article:

    “It is clear to every Jew who accepts the Torah as G-d’s word from Sinai, obligatory and valid for all generations, that it is impossible to introduce ‘compromises’ or ‘renovations’ into it.”

    On the other hand, we want to make it clear that Daat Emet — as well as any reasonable people who do not embrace Halachic laws as the word of the Living G-d — are repulsed by such evil, racist discrimination.

    In the Hebrew text we have abridged the second part of R’ Bar-Chayim’s article,

    “Between Jews and Gentiles — In the Aggadah, the Kabbalah, and in Jewish Thought,” because, in our view, the Halacha is the law which obligates every religious Jew while concepts of the Aggadah, the Kabbalah, and Jewish thought are not binding on anyone, as our rabbis have already written:

    “And so the Aggadic constructs of the disciples of disciples, such as Rav Tanchuma and Rabbi Oshaya and their like — most are incorrect, and therefore we do not rely on the words of Aggadah” (Sefer HaEshkol, Laws of a Torah Scroll, p. 60a); we have expanded on this issue in the portion of Vayeshev.

    GOOGLE:

    THE JEWS ARE CALLED MEN

    Tzfi’a 3

    The Editorial Board

    President of the Editorial Board and Founder: Rabbi Moshe Segal OBM

    Rabbi Yisrael Ariel

    Moshe Asher

    Joel Rakovsky

    Amishar Segal

    Articles are the authors’ responsibility

    5749

    THE DISTINCTION BETWEEN JEWS AND GENTILES IN TORAH

    Rabbi David Bar Chaim

    Yeshivat Mercaz HaRav

  • rumple4skin

    There is no comparison to slavery in the US vs. other places. Slaves in the US would give less than the proverbial f’ck about Irish slavery outside the southern plantations. Indentured Irish slaves in the USA were ‘buying’ their eventual freedom. Blacks were slaves for life. Two totally different sides of the slave coin. Learn and recognize the difference.

  • Imam Ali

    Bullshit a myth that is revived from time to time by American bigots who want to pretend things were not all that bad…they talk about indentured servants as though they were slaves and say “the slaves didn’t have it so bad, the Irish were treated even worse, nobody had signs that said ‘Blacks need not apply'”
    enough with the racist history revision

  • Imam Ali

    this tea party B.S. has been debunked that photo is of fishermen in 1908 not slaves or indentured servants….don’t believe this guys lies

  • Imam Ali

    The unfree Irish in the Caribbean were indentured servants, not slaves

    http://www.thejournal.ie/readme/irish-slaves-myth-2369653-Oct2015/

  • REALLY?

    In my town, the saying went up to 1900, ‘he doesn’t have a China man’s or Irishman chance in a basket. Either group worked hard labor, setting dynamite. If you were Chinese or Irish, in a basket lowered over the edge of a cliff to set charges, the workers above would cut the rope rather than pay either. And heaven forbid if you were black. My husband is black Irish and I am black Scottish, those days are long gone and in this town if your name isn’t Chan or O’Malley you’re likely to be from California 🙂

  • Tim

    Sources?? Where did you get this information from?

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