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Trump: Vaccines Cause Autism And Will Be Investigated

President-elect Donald Trump believes vaccines are responsible for the autism epidemic and he has promised to find out the truth and

President-elect Donald Trump believes vaccines are responsible for the autism epidemic and he has promised to find out the truth and “save our children and their future” when he takes office in January.

Trump dismissed the official claim that there is no link between vaccines and autism, claiming there has been a cover up to suppress the truth and that “nay-sayers will understand soon.”

“[W]e’ve had so many instances, people that work for me. Just the other day, two years old, two and a half years old, a child, a beautiful child went to have the vaccine, and came back, and a week later got a tremendous fever, got very, very sick, now is autistic.

During a GOP a primary debate with Trump, Dr. Ben Carson claimed there is no “documented proof” that vaccines are responsible for autism, however Dr. Carson, a neuroscientist, conceded that “it is true that we are probably giving way too many in too short a period of time.”

Trump’s response echoes one he gave on Fox News in April 2012, in which he also related the story of a child of one of his employees who was damaged after receiving vaccines.

I’ve gotten to be pretty familiar with the subject,” Trump told Fox News’ Fox & Friends. “You know, I have a theory — and it’s a theory that some people believe in — and that’s the vaccinations. We never had anything like this.

This is now an epidemic. It’s way, way up over the past 10 years. It’s way up over the past two years. And, you know, when you take a little baby that weighs like 12 pounds into a doctor’s office and they pump them with many, many simultaneous vaccinations — I’m all for vaccinations, but I think when you add all of these vaccinations together and then two months later the baby is so different then lots of different things have happened. I really — I’ve known cases.”

The vaccine autism link recently came under federal scrutiny when Florida US Congressman Bill Posey noted before a House committee the testimony of Center for Disease Control whistleblower Bill Thompson, who claimed the agency colluded with researchers to destroy documents linking the injection to thousands of autism cases.

On July 29, US Congressman Bill Posey made his last stand on the floor of the House. Granted five minutes to speak, he exposed lies by the CDC in the infamous 2004 study that exonerated the MMR vaccine and claimed it had no connection to autism.

No connection to autism” was the lie. Congressman Posey read a statement by long-term CDC researcher William Thompson, one of the authors of the 2004 Pediatrics study designed to determine once and for all if the MMR vaccine has contributed to the autism epidemic.

“…the [CDC] co-authors scheduled a meeting to destroy documents related to the [MMR vaccine] study. The remaining four co-authors all met and brought a big garbage can into the meeting room and reviewed and went through all the hard copy documents that we had thought we should discard and put them in a huge garbage can.”

With Trump in the White House with full executive powers the vaccine autism link is about to come under it’s most severe scrutiny yet.

Baxter Dmitry
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Baxter Dmitry

Writer at Your News Wire
Passionate about motor sports, military history and the truth, Baxter has travelled in over 80 countries and won arguments in every single one.
Baxter Dmitry
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Baxter Dmitry
About Baxter Dmitry (457 Articles)
Passionate about motor sports, military history and the truth, Baxter has travelled in over 80 countries and won arguments in every single one.
  • Mira

    oh dear, that should set bells ringing for the big pharma companies, who make money from people and children getting sick from their crap vaccines.

  • Wendy Allen

    The people studying it’s safety can’t be the drug companies. They will say anything is safe and didn’t not hurt the kids.

    • Brian

      That’s a pretty terrible business plan. In my line of work, I’d be immediately fired if I claimed a product worked when I knew it didn’t.

      • Wendy Allen

        The drug companies lie…don’t tell the truth. They vaccine you to buy their drugs/vaccines. 1/2 of kids maybe Autistic soon due to vaccines and gluten/GMO/Round. We may lost a whole generation of kids. It is already proven that vaccines caused the Autism . Parent witnessed their child go from normal to disabled. Conventional medicine is not going to detox the kids or restore their brain/body.

        • Brian

          There’s really no faster way to destroy your credibility than citing nonsensical conspiracy websites like “naturalnews” as a source.

          This hoax was debunked long ago.

          • Wendy Allen

            Vaccines destroy the brain/body/lower the immune system. You can enjoy them all you want, but a little baby has no choice at 12 hours old when it hurts them.

          • Brian

            correction: Vaccine preventable diseases destroy the brain/body…

          • Wendy Allen

            2000mg of fish oil stopped my cold/flu for more than 20 years….people need fish oil not a vaccine that hurts and may not help. I know many people hurt by vaccines.

          • Brian

            lol.

            I’m sure quacks and scam artists thank you for your support.

          • Marisa Conover

            Typical gas lighter; go away….

          • Brian

            If you could reason with anti-vaxxers, there’d be no anti-vaxxers

          • Wendy Allen

            No Truth is truth…can’t change. Vaccines hurt and may not help..are destroying the young with 69 vaccines by age 18.

          • Brian

            Truth is truth, but considering the nonsense conspiracy websites you’ve cited, you seem to be completely unfamiliar with truth and reality.

          • Ron Roy

            Spoken like a true MEDICAL MOBSTER.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
          • Wendy Allen

            Fake results.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
          • Ron Roy

            If you could reason with pro-vaxxers, there’d be no pro-vaxxers Thought I’d correct that for you.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
          • AutismDadd

            That gas is brain fart

          • Dee

            Do you know how many fish have to die to get you your fish oil

          • Wendy Allen

            I don’t eat meat/fish but take fish oil. People need fish oil for their immune system/brain/body…not vaccines which don’t work and may hurt. There would be enough fish except the Pacific ocean is full of radiation.

          • Ron Roy

            Then just don’t eat fish taken from the Pacific ocean and leave Wendy alone.

          • acumenata

            If you’re taking fish oil, then you do eat fish. It doesn’t matter if they are squeezed, boiled or fried. They are still fish.

          • Ron Roy

            The same number of fish would die whether they used the oil or not. The fish oil is just one of many uses for those fish.

          • Mike Stevens

            “2000mg of fish oil stopped my cold/flu for more than 20 years.”

            Fish oil, huh? …would that be why 50% of Alaskan Eskimos died in the 1900 epidemics of measles and flu?

          • Ron Roy

            Or could it be that they died because they had abandoned their normal diet ( at least partially ) and stated consuming the devitalized foods offered at these trading posts?

          • sabelmouse

            wahaaaaa?food doesn’t stop germs from jumping!!! 😉

          • Ron Roy

            Anyone that has a good healthy diet has nothing to fear from any germ. As Pasteur said on his deathbed ( I’m paraphrasing ) ” It’s the terrain that’s important not the germ.”

          • Blessed Bee

            These PharmTrolls don’t care about facts. They don’t care about health. If they did, they’d insist vaccine manufacturers have the exact same liability when vaccines kill or injure that every other manufacturer has. They’d rather vaccine manufacturers make unsafe vaccines and make money, than be held liable for the deaths and disabilities they cause.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
        • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

          That 1/2 claim is made by a computer scientist with no experience in analyzing diseases, vaccines, or anything related to them.

          • FallsAngel

            Who also knows nothing about statistics. You can’t extrapolate like that!

        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
          • Wendy Allen

            Have fun if you want…but it doesn’t change the real story. There are many Autistic kids and Conventional medicine doesn’t detox them or rebuild their brain/body.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Please can you quote-and-link to where I said it did?

          • acumenata

            Show us evidence of the many autistic kids are no longer autistic because alternative medicine ‘rebuilt’ their brains. We’ll wait.

      • Wendy Allen
        • Mike Stevens

          Natural news is not a credible source of medical information.

          • shay simmons

            Natural news is not a credible source of medical information

            FTFY.

      • Wendy Allen
        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

          Natural news fails to make the distinction between elements and compounds.

    • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

      Good thing most vaccine safety studies are not done by pharma companies. You don’t have to worry.

      • AutismDadd

        A bare-faced lie

    • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

      What about the NIH, universities, governments?

      • Wendy Allen

        They already proved vaccines hurt and I know many who are hurt. It is not pretend. If you got 7 vaccines every 2 months and one at 12 hours old and then 69 vaccines total you may not be doing so well also.

        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

          Can you quote-and-link to anyone who claimed that vaccines didn’t harm anyone ever?
          https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/d8988160b0ef8678b1253af43add2ff6030d29d1fbd8f61601b844dffcb78290.png

        • acumenata

          Regarding your claim to know many who are hurt, you left out the most important part of your anecdote. You are the same Wendy who also claims to know that everyone from Michael Jackson to your dentist died as a result of undiagnosed celiac disease. When you’re a hammer, everything looks like a nail.

          • Wendy Allen

            See Peter Osborne/Tom O’byran. No Grain No Pain/ Dangerous Grains book/Wheat Belly book and more. Gluten /GMO may hurt intestines in most people so less nutrients absorb…then cells are not made right to work right in the brain/body. Vaccines add to Celiac/GMO/Roundup etc. in hurting people.

          • acumenata

            You are citing popular diet books, Wendy. Paraphrasing what another poster said further down in the thread, if you want people to take you seriously you need to come up with more credible sources. Celebrity doctors who are making money with weight loss books, nutrition books, cookbooks and ancillary ‘lifestyle programs’ are not that. Neither is a laundry list of your fears.

            Let’s get back on point. You say this: “they already proved vaccines hurt” and “I know many people who are hurt”. How large is your sample group? What is your evidence that those ‘many people’ you say you know were, in fact, hurt by vaccines? Hint: because you read something that makes you think they were is NOT evidence.

          • Wendy Allen

            No books/posters/no money making. Most people are hurt by gluten. See Peter Osborne. B est wishes.

          • acumenata

            These guys don’t give their books and videotapes away for free. Osborne, Davis,, Perlmutter, Mercola, Adams and all the others you follow like religious leaders are running for profit businesses that are preying on people like yourself.

            I’m still waiting for that information about those ‘many people’ you know who were hurt by vaccines. See above.

          • Wendy Allen

            Youtube/Facebook has Peter Obsorne/Mercola/Tom O’bryan/Dr. Davis for Wheat Belly/Perlmutter etc. They are awesome help for health. They are family/friends/others I talk to that were hurt….many 30+ hurt…not good. God bless!

          • acumenata

            Who diagnosed your 30+ family members/friends/others and concluded they were hurt by vaccines? You, them, or a qualified physician?

          • Wendy Allen

            Look around…ask people yourself about the flu vaccine if it helped or hurt them. People got the flu after the flu vaccine since it lowered their immune system and the vaccine may not have been for this year’s virus. Viruses mutate. The flu vaccine may have mercury in it and other bad ingredients. Look up the ingredients. Seniors get a double dose which can hurt double and some have died. Guillain-Barre syndrome happened to 3 people I know. Do your own research and you may see the truth.

          • acumenata

            Asking people what they think isn’t the way to do medical research, Wendy. What you get from that is a public opinion survey with no basis in medical fact.

            You are repeating things that have been repeatedly debunked. If vaccines scare YOU, then don’t get vaccinated. But don’t call your opinion fact. You are clearly not a scientist, a medical professional, or a thorough researcher. You read things, you get scared, you light you hair on fire and try to convince everyone that you know what you’re talking about. When was the last time you actually studied anything with an open mind, without looking to support your own theories and fears?

          • Wendy Allen

            Vaccines are being forced on people and they are getting hurt by them others think ads for makes them safe and later get hurt. You can discount every I say. If you want vaccines..feel free to take them. Vaccines would hurt me and the people I know. Truth is truth. God bless!

          • acumenata

            I keep hearing this. Give me concrete examples of where and how vaccines are being “forced” on anyone. That is extremely strong language implying that people are being forcibly vaccinated against their will. That isn’t even practiced for prison inmates.

  • AutismDadd

    Hope The Donald follows through on his pledge.

  • FallsAngel

    And here we go! We can only hope that with everything he is supposedly going to do in his first 100 days, he doesn’t really get any of it done.

    • Wendy Allen

      Trump may get much done. He already stopped the TPP and is selecting people to help him get things done. He helped rebuild New York and now the U.S.. God bless him!

      • FallsAngel

        Stopped the TPP? He’s not president yet!

      • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

        How can Trump enact legislation if he is not yet in office?

        • Wendy Allen

          Trump influences the vote/actions even before he is in offices and now the elected are mostly Republican which can vote.

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            Yes, once he is in office. Which he is not. So, TPP has not changed yet. Get it?

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            I am trying to get you to understand that a rumor is not an action.

      • acumenata

        Perhaps you should ask some New Yorkers how much he ‘helped rebuild’ New York.

        • Wendy Allen

          See his day care plan on Youtube….awesome! He will greatly help America!

  • chromesthesia

    This is a waste of time and money. Can you PLEASE stop blaming vaccines? All this money and effort could go towards homes for autistic people. In the community. Not group homes. And speech devices. Then you have the nerve to ask what will happen to your autistic child when you’re gone. Nothing helpful if you keep wasting time with this crap! Start giving autistic people the real support they need instead!

    • Wendy Allen

      They need to prevent Autism. 69 vaccines from up to age 18 is overdose…7 vaccines every 2 months. Older people didn’t have this many. It is causing Autism. 1/2 of kids maybe Autistic soon and mostly boys. Autistic kids can be healed…need to detox/Celiac diet/vitamins/good oils/minerals/probiotic..LDN etc may help. Not helping them and just letting them stay Autistic is sad.

      • Brian

        The unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated, so it’s obvious that vaccines don’t cause it.

      • chromesthesia

        None of what you said is remotely accurate. You can’t prevent autism unless you prevent autistic people from being born. There’s FEMALE autistic people too. Detoxes, all of that is a waste of time and gets in the way of really understanding autistic people, how they think, how they feel ect. What’s sad is people’s ableism and fear of autism. Not autism itself.
        There’s been autistic people since there’s been PEOPLE!

        • Wendy Allen

          Yes…you can prevent Autism. They are not born that way. They are hurt by vaccines. They maybe born Celiac which lowers the immune system, but gluten may hurt most people. I have done detoxes…are very needed. I was like an Autistic person when I got poisoned by colloidal silver. Detoxing heavy metals unblocks chemical reactions/thyroid/raises oxygen in the brain and helps the brain/body work right they are suppose to work. Conventional medicine may not detox or rebuild the cells of the brain/body, but Alternative medicine doctors etc do it daily to help people. All people need detoxing. There are too many chemicals in the water etc. Celiac goes back many generations, but Autism started going up when GMO food started which also hurts the gut lining in addition to gluten. Autistic kids can heal…no gluten/dairy/soy/sugar/GMO…taking vitamins/good oils/minerals…probiotic…LDN..detoxing and no more vaccines..no food with a label…eating pure organic food and good water.

          • chromesthesia

            Autism isn’t an injury. You’re spreading nonsense. Back in the days of organic food you still had autistic people!
            And no more vaccines means bringing back deadly diseases that will kill people before the age of 5, but oh, being autistic is so bad and terrifying?

          • Wendy Allen

            Are you Autistic? No Autism went up when GMO food started. https://www.youtube.com/results?search_query=Autism+rise+when+GMO+started See the videos about it. No Vaccines don’t help. Autism can be prevented and fixed. People can heal.

          • chromesthesia

            I am autistic. I’m not BROKEN! I don’t need to be fixed. I don’t need to be healed. The world needs to be fixed. GMOs don’t cause autism. Vaccines don’t cause it. It’s always existed since you’ve had people!

          • Proponent

            No, autism (and diabetes) went up with organic food sales..

            “Organic Food Causes Autism and Diabetes”

          • Mike Stevens

            Heh! Can’t argue with that!

          • Ron Roy

            You will say anything to try and excuse the harm caused by vaccines won’t you? You truly are evil.

          • Proponent

            No.. Ronald.. you will say anything.

            Like..

            Ron Roy: “”One of the compound’s 23 atoms is a mercury atom–did you have appoint?”WROGGGGGGGGG!!!!!!!!!!! 49% of thimerosal is mercury NOT i atom out of 23. A shill to the end hey?”

            Have a read..

            “Now for the mercury part. The atom mercury, Hg, is present in the thimerosal molecule. On one side, it is bound to a sulfur atom. On the other side, it is bound to an ethyl group, which a naming convention for two carbons attached to each other and saturated with hydrogen atoms (save for one bond, which is to the mercury). This is an important distinction to highlight before we move on, so I’ll say it again. This modified form of mercury is the only form of mercury that has ever appeared in vaccines.”

            (Source: Science-Based Vaccine Analysis | “Musings on Mercury Misconceptions” )

          • Ron Roy

            No matter how you try and twist the truth 49% of thimerosal is still mercury.

          • Proponent

            No, Ronald.. 49% ethylmercury.

            Care to triple down on the stupid?

          • Jonathan Graham

            …and 50% of salt is chlorine. I guarantee that you can safely ingest more salt than chlorine.

          • Marisa Conover

            Big Pharma and Monsanto are the two headed monster; Bayer bought Monsanto for $66 BILLION Dollars; a match made in hell…..http://money.cnn.com/2016/09/14/investing/monsanto-bayer-takeover-biggest-deal/

          • Mike Stevens

            “I have done detoxes”
            …Red flags all over.

      • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
  • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

    So, the guy who is very much pro big business and small government is going to spend more money studying that which has been studied greatly already, all over the world? That is your plan? ROFLSNORT.

    • gary

      there have been lots of studies proving a connection between vaccines and autistic brain allergy is more descriptive of what is really happening to a childs brain. and the fact that we dont know what is in them and there have been no studies done on the safety of vaccines except the vaccine makers themselves. not an unbiased report. so i guess you can have all of our vaccines and you can get a double dose of poison

      • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

        There is no such thing as autistic brain allergy. We know exactly what is in vaccines and there are thousands of safety studies from all over the world. Most of those safety studies are not done by pharma companies at all. Would you like me to link you to some?

        • KT

          You are right…you can ask for labels (they are not given to parents)to the ingredients in vaccines. Formaldehyde, pig DNA, aborted fetal tissue, propylene glycol, antibiotics, and other toxic, synthetic, harmful additives and chemicals….no thank-you.

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            There is more formaldehyde in you and your food. Why would have a teensy bit in a vaccine bother you?

            Aborted fetal cells, not tissue, from 50+ year old cell lines are used to grove viruses for some vaccines. Other vaccine use different types of cells. The process is the same .The viruses are removed from the cells and purified. There is no tissue no cells in vaccines.

            The rest of the ingredients are equally harmless in those doses. The dose makes the poison is a very important concept.

          • Ron Roy

            Big difference in between naturally occurring and the same thing being injected. Sqalene is naturally occurring but when put into a vaccine like the Anthrax vaccine it caused what came to be known as Gulf War Syndrome. Now Proponent or Kathy or Johnny will deny this but go to WHALE / VACCINE and see the truth for yourself.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Please explain clearly the chemical difference between naturally occurring and artificially occurring.

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            When I go to whale dot to, I like to check out the flying dolphins. Sometimes, I like to read the aids denial section. The germ theory denial articles are also pretty interesting. It’s astounding people believe such untruths!

          • Ron Roy

            This is the proper link folks:http://whale.to/vaccines.html

          • AutismDadd

            Kathy head Vaccine Shill at work.

          • AutismDadd

            Who is this ” Kathy” who so coldly and quickly denies any issue with vaccines? Would you really take her announcements w/o doing your own research?

          • Dee

            If you’re anti-chemical, I hope you avoid dihydrogen monoxide.

          • Proponent
          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/ee98c8926c4d28ee31879307de07ec2eb2c3c5f64dd6ce719d7d66ce34f02e4f.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/e80ba9586702a1b0e5081bb8c0ce96d445598ee4b1034c02a80e9a10da04b84d.jpg

            Formaldehyde – that needs to be in there if you don’t want The Cutter Incident II

            Pig DNA – so?

            Antibiotics – do you want the vaccines contaminated?

            As for toxic, synthetic, harmful additives, the evidence you have that they are toxic at exposure levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination would be what, exactly? Your argument does boil down to something more than “oooh…..ingredients….scary stuff.”, right?

            As for chemicals…give up on avoiding them now. Even if you were to go live in a cave somewhere,

          • Mike Stevens

            The Pig DNA one always cracks me up.
            I had pork sausages and crispy bacon for breakfast at the weekend… Lovely!

          • AutismDadd

            So dumb. Go away

          • Ron Roy

            But the naturally occurring formaldehyde is not in combination with all the other toxins in vaccines which can increase the toxicity, of any of the ingredients many time over. http://www.whale.to/vaccine/synergistic_toxicity_q.html

          • Jonathan Graham

            the naturally occurring formaldehyde is not in combination with all the other toxins in vaccines

            As soon as you inject it it is. Not to mention that vaccines have an insignificant amount of formaldehyde compared to the tissue that you are injecting it into. Formaldehyde has a blood concentration level of 2.74 +/- 0.14 mg/L. So whatever made-up combined effect would happen regardless of it being there. Not to mention that most of the things in a vaccine are in your body at one time or another. Given the amount of time you spend not being vaccinated is millions of times greater than the time you do. You would be more likely to encounter these made-up effects just standing around.

          • Ron Roy

            Wrong. Go to WHALE / VACCINE folks the truth is there.

          • Jonathan Graham

            As soon as you inject it you have far more formaldehyde available for whatever made-up effect to occur. So its presence can’t take a large part in whatever made-up effect you are currently fearmongering. Not to mention that the biological half-life of formaldehyde is something like 1-2 minutes. So over time the potential contribution gets lower and lower. Whereas the bio-synthesized concentration stays constant.

          • Ron Roy

            It the combination of formaldehyde with all the other toxins in vaccines that make the formaldehyde more toxic than when ingested. But you know this.

          • Jonathan Graham

            All those other toxins exist in your tissue at some time and they would all co-exist at some time too. For example aluminum and formaldehyde both co-exist in your bloodstream. 🙂

          • AutismDadd

            JG may know little about the real world. His virtual world is a concession stand full of coke and chips.

          • kfunk937

            Just guessing here that you meant to type

            As soon as you inject it you [do not] have far more

            because adding a tiny bit to a whole bunch already there, and then blaming the tiny bit for whatever made-up effect followed, wouldn’t make sense.

            (Blasted typos/thinkos. Happens to me alla time.)

          • FallsAngel

            A site run by an anti-Semitic pig farmer who believes in reptilian shape shifters? Consider the source! LOL!

          • AutismDadd

            Yawn what rubbish.

          • Jonathan Graham

            If as the whale claims when you have two toxins in the bloodstream you have a much higher toxicity then what I have described is exactly what would happen.

          • AutismDadd

            Exactly in every case in every individual? NOPE

          • Jonathan Graham

            Every individual has an enormously higher blood level of formaldehyde than there exists in vaccines. So again, unless you’re claiming there’s magic involved.

          • AutismDadd

            More nonsense.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Nope, without that high level of formaldehyde you would probably die.

          • AutismDadd

            Or suffer brain damage?

          • Jonathan Graham

            No, however it is used to produce deoxythymidine among other things.

          • AutismDadd

            What? no cross links between amino acids and deoxynucleosides and their oligomers?

          • Jonathan Graham

            At 25 mmol/L maybe.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            CHO2
            CHO2

            Which is natural and which is artificial?

            And toxins is not the word you want, Ron.

            Oh and have you still not learnt the difference between claims and evidence yet?

          • AutismDadd

            Great vaccine shill plopaganda.

          • Mike Stevens

            Have you checked the list of synthetic, toxic chemical ingredients contained in your cup of morning tea?

          • Ron Roy

            Big difference in between ingested and injected,

          • Jonathan Graham

            Not when ingestion creates a blood level equivalent or greater than your injection.

          • AutismDadd

            Citation and thousands of peer reviewed studies please.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Unnecessary, the argument was it’s in your blood/tissue. Pretending that injections are magical doesn’t make Ron Roy look any smarter.

          • AutismDadd

            Who says injections are magical…not Ron

          • Jonathan Graham

            Well if we accept the reaction in the article as accurate then you either are believing that injections have magic or that the reaction would have happened anyway…or of course whale is probably wrong but Ron can’t go there.

          • AutismDadd

            More Ham Man nonsense…face palm!

          • Jonathan Graham

            It’s just the truth.

          • AutismDadd

            In your twisted mind of course

          • Jonathan Graham

            No just based on math and reason.

          • AutismDadd

            and some twisted logic

          • Jonathan Graham

            No, I simply use straightforward and ordinary logic.

          • AutismDadd

            Hilarious.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Just the truth.

          • AutismDadd

            twist the truth….there I corrected your atrocious spelling

          • Jonathan Graham

            However you can’t point out specifically how I’ve twisted anything. Hence this is just something you say it’s not an actual criticism.

          • AutismDadd

            Deflection from a pro-vac sock puppet

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Why should we be scared of those at levels achievable by routine childhood vaccination?

          • AutismDadd

            But they are health giving. You can watch your child faint, have an anaphylactic reaction or a seizure. That’s the miracle vaccine working.

        • Ron Roy

          There are always links maybe not directly but follow the money. Go to WHALE / VACCINE and see what happens to anyone who opposes the MEDICAL MAFIA. Pharmaceutical companies control disease care all over the world. Well you’re a prime example of their power to control $$$$$$$$$$$$$.

          • Jonathan Graham

            to anyone who opposes the MEDICAL MAFIA.

            Ron aren’t you opposing your imaginary medical mafia? Why haven’t they sent the Lizard People to take you down?

          • Ron Roy

            You’re slipping in your replies. No go back to your calculator and lay off the diet coke and chips. Go to WHALE / VACCINE folks and see all the lies perpetuated by Johnny in behalf of the MEDICAL MAFIA exposed.

          • Jonathan Graham

            So again, why are you not targeted by your made-up mafia? I mean if I really worked for some shadow organization with some immense power base that would do anything to protect itself (your words) and you were actually making a difference then where are the Lizard People Commandos? Why haven’t I called in the black helicopters?

            In your made-up world the only viable conclusions are that either there is no mafia, they don’t really have the kind of power you fantasize about or….you aren’t accomplishing anything.

          • Ron Roy
          • FallsAngel

            Any site with the word truth in it is anything but.

          • AutismDadd

            That would include medical journals

          • Jonathan Graham

            So if I’m not part of the medical mafia then that lends evidence to the idea that your belief in the medical mafia is delusional?

            Also you haven’t answered my question. How is it that this enormously funded group exists with zero tolerance to people speaking against them and you are making a difference. Without someone sending in the Lizard People to take care of you?

          • Proponent

            Ron Roy: “So I guess I was a pretty effective speaker when I debated with that pediatrician.”

            What did you do that made you (in your own mind) a ‘pretty effective speaker’, Ronald?

            Shout out; “Go to WHALE / VACCINE!” ?

          • Ron Roy

            Didn’t know about WHALE / VACCINE at the time. But judging from the response I got ( not one negative comment ) I guess I did a pretty good job. Thanks for asking .

          • Proponent

            And when did this ‘debate’ take place, Ronald?

            Was it:
            i) a few years ago
            ii) ten years ago
            iii) sixteen years ago

            Careful now.. the correct answer.. or, I should say answers are right there in your commenting history.

            tick.. tock.. tick.. tock..

          • FallsAngel

            WHALE/VACCINE A site run by an anti-Semitic pig farmer who believes in reptilian shape shifters? Consider the source!

          • shay simmons

            Not to mention sentient dolphins.

          • AutismDadd

            Sounds like you are harassing Ron Roy. Ron should report it and get you banned.

          • Jonathan Graham

            If Ron Roy doesn’t want to hear from me. He should stop being my follower.

          • AutismDadd

            He’s shadowing you because you are dangerous

          • Jonathan Graham

            Point being is as my follower he sees everything I post. So he can’t really say that this is unwanted attention.

          • AutismDadd

            Why not? There’s no doubt you’er annoying.

          • Jonathan Graham

            He can’t say it’s unwanted attention since he volunteered to see my posts.

          • AutismDadd

            Yea I guess if he’s asking for it he should suffer the consequences.

          • Jonathan Graham

            It is attention he has voluntarily decided to receive.

          • AutismDadd

            Poor guy, I wouldn’t wish it on a dog.

          • Jonathan Graham

            How often you jump form my attention says otherwise.

          • AutismDadd

            That’s how I know dogs don’t deserve it. Poor things

          • FallsAngel

            WHALE? A site run by an anti-Semitic pig farmer who believes in reptilian shape shifters? Consider the source!

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            That you just told me to go to the most rabidly irrational science conspiracy website in the world speaks volumes.

          • Ron Roy

            That you fear all the doctors and scientist who are quoted on WHALE / VACCINE speaks volumes.

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            I don’t fear them. It’s a very crazy website. I’ve spent enough time reading there. My fave section is the flying dolphins. http://www.whale.to/b/dolphins_h.html

          • shay simmons

            Me too!

          • Ron Roy

            You should SEE all the weird books available in public libraries. Does that make all the other books invalid? If you would have followed my instructions and gone to WHALE / VACCINE ( check it out folks ) you would probably have learned something and developed a conscience at the same time. SHAME on you fro promoting vaccines. http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            If you don’t understand how to vet valid sources, that speaks volumes.

          • Ron Roy

            WHALE / VACCINE Don’t go there Kathy you just might develop a conscience.

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            I have read a lot of whale. Here is my advice to you. When you want to make a point and your source is whale dot to, always verify it first. For example, Alex was trying to tell us that there used to be a scarlet fever vaccine. He refused to name his source. Finally, he cut and pasted a few sentences, which were easily found, via google, to be lines from Just a little P*&$% (rhymes with Rick, since this page screens the real word out). The lines were lifted from a page a whale dot to because the author, Hillary Butler, is one of the main contributors at whale. But, guess what? She made it up. She claimed it is from an issue of The Lancet that never existed. If Alex had verified his claim first, he would have known that it was bogus.

            Happens often with whale dot to. Their claims are nearly all bogus or misconstrued. Whale is the first antivax page I encountered, 13 years ago, when I began this vaccine information quest. I was astonished at the bad science.

            So, my advice to you is don’t use whale dot to as your sources. Verify the claims first and see if they are even valid.

        • AutismDadd

          Thousands of safety studies says Kathy. Odd that when a congressional hearing asked CDC representatives about vaccine studies with vaccinated vs unvaccinated , only one study existed and it was small scale. Then we have William Thompson confessing to a Man who’s own child was a victim of vaccines.

      • Dee

        There are ZERO studies proving a connection between vaccines and autism.

        • Ron Roy

          Why focus ONLY on autism? Why not mention the dozens of other diseases caused by vaccines? Cancers, thrombocytopenia, arthritis, MS ,CIDP, Guillian Barre Syndrome, shingles, arthritis, non polio acute flaccid paralysis etc. etc. I can list a dozen more if you want.

          • Dee

            Wow, you can make a list! Impressive! Still doesn’t negate the fact that there is NO DOCUMENTED PROOF that vaccines cause autism, which was your first point so we’ll stick with that instead of changing to an unrelated subject (which still has no documented proof those are caused by vaccines)

          • FallsAngel

            Moving the goalposts, eh? If you can’t win the argument about autism, change the subject! /s

          • AutismDadd

            I guess he learned that from pro-vacs

      • Proponent

        gary: “and the fact that we dont know what is in them and there have been no studies done on the safety of vaccines except the vaccine makers themselves. not an unbiased report.”

        FDA | “Vaccine Product Approval Process”

        And more to the point..

        Vaccinate Your Baby | “Too Many Vaccines?”

        “Finally, all vaccines are subjected to concomitant studies before they are approved for use, meaning that all new vaccines must be tested in conjunction with existing ones to ensure there are no negative interactions. Regulatory agencies such as the Food and Drug Administration (FDA) are careful to look for any side effects associated with concomitant use before approving a new vaccine.”

        • AutismDadd

          FDA approved VIOXX too right? How did that go?

      • Damo

        Produce one of these “all sorts of studies.”

        While I wait, I will paint my house, write a novel, learn to play several instruments, go back to college and get several doctorates, and then, just before dying, pass off the task of waiting for one of these studies to appear to my grandchildren. and they will all grow up, go to college, get several doctorates, start families, watch their children and grandchildren grow up and then pass the task of waiting unto them.

        My guess is that 6 or 7 generations later they will basically just stop waiting and figure you are just lying.

        • AutismDadd

          Supply the thousands of studies Kathy claims exist proving no connection between autism and vaccines.

          • Damo

            I am asking for one. One study. You are asking for thousands. Which are all publicly available.

          • AutismDadd

            Then supply them

    • distachio

      There’s never been a study comparing vaccinated vs. unvaccinated populations. Theres also never been a safety study of the multi-vaccines (3-5 vaccines in one injection). A CDC whistleblower — WHO STILL WORKS FOR THE CDC — comes forward and BEGS to testify before congress with proof that he and his colleagues were ordered to destroy data showing a clear link between the MMR and autism in African-American boys, but his appearance date keeps getting pushed back over — for YEARS now — and you don’t smell something fishy?

      Go ahead and call me a conspiracy theorist, anti-science, a nut job, and anything else you like. None of that negates anything I just wrote.

      • Brian

        Lots of false information in this post. If anyone wants examples, feel free to ask.

        • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

          Please indicate to me which part is false?

          • Brian

            Pretty much every sentence of distacio’s comment, as you appropriately debunked.

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            oh geez, on my phone I thought you meant I was false. LOL So much easier to read comments on my giant computer screen. 😛

        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

          *Asks*

          • Brian

            Kathy already deconstructed distacio’s comment pretty well, but to repeat:
            -yes there have been several vaccinated/unvaccinated studies
            -yes, all vaccines are tested for safety
            -no, the “CDC whistlblower” didn’t say the CDC destroyed data showing a link between vaccines and autism
            -nor is he begging congress to say what he never said in the first place
            As a recommendation to distacio, if you don’t want people to think you’re a conspiracy theorist, anti-science nut job, then I recommend you stop promoting nutty anti-science conspiracy theories.

      • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

        Actually, that is not true. This blogger has compiled a list of vaxed v unvaxed studies.

        https://thoughtscapism.com/2015/04/10/myth-no-studies-compare-the-health-of-unvaccinated-and-vaccinated-people/

        And Thompson did not blow any whistles. He had a conversation, illegally recorded, with Brian Hooker and then that conversation was outed to the masses and turned into a movie. All without his permission. So, he never blew any whistles. He was betrayed by a friend. And he has never begged or even asked to testify.

        He has been free, for the last 12 years since the study was published, to come forward and talk to anyone he likes. He never did.

        Finally, there is no isolated autism and no greater risk for African American boys. The analysis presented in Vaxxed was badly done and retracted from publication.

        I don’t name call. Here is a complete list of all the facts related to the whistleblower issue.
        http://www.harpocratesspeaks.com/2014/09/mmr-cdc-and-brian-hooker-media-guide.html

        • AutismDadd

          Anything from Kathy is bogus.

        • AutismDadd

          More denial, from this “Kathy” who quickly and coldly denies all issues regarding vaccines. What might Kathy’s motivation be for protecting Vaccine makers? Maybe Kathy could explain 19 countries having Vac injury compensation plans. Or explain the Vaccine Adverse Reaction Reporting System VAERS or the National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program NVICP. Likely she’ll deny they exist.

      • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
    • Ron Roy

      Studied all over the world? Yeah controlled studies financed by the Medical MOB ( you thought I was going to say MAFIA didn’t you? Go to WHALE / VACCINEand see what hundreds of doctors, scientists, medical historians and researchers ( who haven’t been bought by the MM, have to say.

      • FallsAngel

        A site run by an anti-Semitic pig farmer who believes in reptilian shape shifters? Consider the source! WHALE-VACCINE!

    • ritapalma

      Yeah, the well being of little kids isnt’ worth it.

      • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

        International scientific consensus shows vaccines have far greater benefits than risks and they don’t cause autism. Vaccines keep kids safe.

        • AutismDadd

          Kathy admits it,” International scientific consensus” claims this. And who is involved in this International Consensus? W.H.O., CDC. FDA you know the ones wanting us injected for everything they invent.

      • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
    • AutismDadd

      Snort on pig Kathy. Your so-called studies are trash science and science that William Thompson exposed as tainted. Put that in you trough and scarf it.

  • Melanie

    Agree…

  • http://www.desireerover.nl Desiree Rover

    Trump is creating major confusion here.
    There is NEVER anything positive to be expected from ANY vaccine.
    The body simply does not work that way!
    There is NO shape or form of health or protection to be expected from the injecting of pathogens — killed, attenuated or DNA recombinated — with in the same brew toxic metals and chemicals (adjuvants and residues from the production process), as well as unknown microbial contaminations from the animal and even human cells on which the vaccine components have been cultured… Read the product inserts!
    Put all these substances in an apple… would you feed you child that apple?
    Of course not.
    Yet you allow this crap tobe injected direcly into his or her body….?

    Vaccination is pseudo science, it is a “religion” (Trumps ‘believes’ in vaccines!)
    Vaccination is not logical, it is fear based, it is presented dripping with fear porn, and when you are in fear mode, you can run and fight, but you can’t think straight.

    Listen to my show of 13 November 2016 where I speak with psychiatrist Rima Laibow MD, in THE MINORITY OF ONE REPORT on http://www.consciousconsumernetwork.tv
    Listen 10 times if you have to, to erase from your mind the giant mantra lie that “vaccines are safe and effective”.
    They are NOT.
    Vaccines are only effective in destroying health.
    Vaccines are only effective in creating cancer, autoimmune diseases, “shaken baby syndrome”, autism, SIDS and many other diseases and syndromes.
    The only way to become and stay healthy is to eat right and see to it that you get all the 90 essential nutrients that your body needs.
    And don’t ask your doctor, because he doesn’t know. He simply parrots what has been created since 1910 as Western patent medicine by Abraham Flexner and Rockefeller…

    • Brian

      satire?

      Would you eat an apple if it contained formaldehyde?

      • http://www.desireerover.nl Desiree Rover

        Brian, formaldehyde is in the frigging vaccines

        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

          Desiree Rover, do you know what happens if you don’t have formaldehyde in the vaccines?

          The Cutter Incident.

        • Brian

          And it’s also in apples and other common food.

    • Proponent

      Is this the Rima Laibow that you are referencing?

      The Rima Laibow that was marketing a number of untested products and making ludicrous claims for them on her website?

      Like..

      “On the home page you have a YouTube video embedded titled, “URGENT MESSAGE to EBOLA-STRICKEN NATIONS’ HEADS OF STATE.” In the video you state:

      • “As of now it is said that there is no treatment against Ebola, and that is not true. In fact there is a well-known, well characterized, nutrient. That is Nano Silver….
      [I]t does kill every pathogen against which it has been tested, worldwide, without exception. There is no other effective solution …Nano Silver …is unlimited in its effectiveness …[and is a] safe, non-toxic …and available solution against Ebola and every other communicable disease….” (00:35- 2:12)”

      That the Rima Laibow you mean?

  • Robert Saltzman

    The gov already subsidizes the companies that make vaccines. We do need a supply of some treatments. Spread out vaccines if you are forced to take them.
    Vaccine makers are exempt from prosecution all vaccine injury is heard in a little known vaccine injury court. The connection to autism is blatant in your face, READ THE INFORMATION PAMPHLET

    • Proponent

      Robert Saltzman: “Vaccine makers are exempt from prosecution.. .”

      Incorrect.

      “12. Under what circumstances may a vaccine administrator or manufacturer be sued?

      a. If the petition has been judged non-compensable or dismissed under the VICP; or
      b. If the award granted by the VICP is otherwise rejected by the petitioner; or
      c. If the vaccine is not covered under the VICP.”

      (Source: National Vaccine Injury Compensation Program )

      In other words..

      “Under the NVICP, those claiming a vaccine injury from a covered vaccine
      cannot sue a vaccine manufacturer without first filing a claim with the
      U.S. Court of Federal Claims.”

      (Source: History of Vaccines | “Vaccine Injury Compensation Programs” )

    • Mike Stevens

      “The connection to autism is blatant in your face, READ THE INFORMATION PAMPHLET”
      Sigh… another one who cannot distinguish between an adverse reaction caused by the vaccine, and an adverse event that coincidentally occurs following vaccination (which is all the vaccine leaflet indicates is the case regarding autism).
      Tell us Robert, with over 90% of kids getting vaccinated in their first year of life, and autism subsequently occurring in around one in 50 children, what do you think the odds of a vaccinated child later developing autism quite by chance would be? Can you do the math on that one?

      • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

        Quite apart from that:

        Think what this would require, lurkers. 99% of biologists,chemists, lawyers, immunologists, doctors, medical researchers & scientists and historians to conspire to hide vaccines causing autism from the population along with every goverment and every major health org where some governments would have to pay twice.

        And all of that…just so they can announce their evil plot on the vaccine insert? Even if you’re cynical enough to think they’re all evil….it’s not a Bond film.

    • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

      You mean “Adverse events without regard for causality”.

      How can they both be exempt from all liability and have a special court?

  • Brian

    Again we see that those quickest to criticize vaccination are the quickest to prove their ignorance of it.

    • AutismDadd

      Then there’s you a willfully blind baboon who trolls and parrots the lies meant to misinform parents about the serious adverse events that can follow vaccination.

  • distachio

    Happened to my son just like that.

  • Brittany Mattia

    Vaccines DO NOT cause autism. No studies show a link between the two. Multiple studies have been done by researchers and scientists and found no link between the two.
    Trump saying Vaccines cause autism is a DANGEROUS thing to say. Vaccines are so important to get. I work in Public Health so I know a lot about this subject. Vaccines have wiped out or reduced MANY communicable diseases that you don’t see around anymore. Remember viruses like the Spanish influenza that used to kill millions of people? Study your history people. Before vaccines millions of outbreaks and diseases have killed populations of people all over the world. Please vaccinate. If anyone needs to see the research I have plenty of credible sources that I can send over.

    • Ron Roy

      Let me correct your post: Vaccines DO cause autism. No studies financed by the MEDICAL MAFIA showed a link in between the two. However there are thousands of parents who witnessed their children become autistic after being vaccinated. Vaccines only served in creating new customers for the MEDICAL MAFIA. A few diseases cause by vaccines:Autism,Cerebral Palsy, Guillain-Barre Syndrome, MS, CIDP, Allergies, Arthritis, Cancers, Thrombocytoppenia, Shingles. Shall I go on? Or just go to WHALE / VACCINE and look at all the vaccine caused diseases.

      • Proponent
        • Ron Roy

          Go to WHALE / VACCINE and see all the other diseases caused by vaccines.

          • FallsAngel

            A site run by an anti-Semitic pig farmer who believes in reptilian shape shifters? Consider the source!

          • Verboten

            It doesn’t matter if a person is a lunatic, it matters what they say. Fallacy of discrediting witness instead of weighing the evidence in the statements.

          • Proponent

            Verboten: “It doesn’t matter if a person is a lunatic, it matters what they say.”

            I beg to differ.

            Particularly when you can read the following on WHALE / VACCINE..

            Jonathan Graham: “I think you mean: “most entertaining” while you’re there check out the bit about where they claim that tetanus vaccines contain electronic implants.”

            Next?

          • Verboten

            Well, while that is not occurring now, it will in the future. Heard of nano-tech? Of course, the uninformed believe a lot of pop hype, but we are not far off from being able to implement such a thing.

          • Proponent

            Oh, it’s occurring now.. according to WHALE / VACCINE.

            Thanks for confirming, Verboten.. that WHALE / VACCINE Is pure, unadulterated nonsense.

          • Verboten

            Well, sure, apparently the guy who runs it believes in lizard people or something. Hitler thought the Earth was hollow…people can be crazy and occasionally correct as well. A gold ring in a pig’s snout is still a gold ring.

          • Damo

            “Hitler thought the Earth was hollow…people can be crazy and occasionally correct as well.”

            What exactly was Hitler right about?

          • Verboten

            He turned Germany’s economy completely around, developed the Highway system, increased the scientific acumen of his country and brought them out of a horrible depression. Were Hilter not insane, starting wars and committing genocide, he would probably be known as one of the greatest leaders Germany ever had.

          • Damo

            “He turned Germany’s economy completely around, developed the Highway system, increased the scientific acumen of his country and brought them out of a horrible depression.”

            What doeas any of that have to do with the earth being hollow?

            “Were Hilter not insane, starting wars and committing genocide, he would probably be known as one of the greatest leaders Germany ever had.”

            If Hitler wasn’t committing genocide and starting wars he would never have turned the economy around and brought them out of a horrible depression.

          • Verboten

            Is this more from the person that doesn’t know who they are following into the afterlife?

            Ah yes, as usual, the misguided also know nothing about history or economics. Never a surprise. Please, do read before you comment on a topic that you know nothing about.

          • Verboten

            Oh, your name and another name are very similar. You showed up with the same tone of voice. Apologies.

          • Damo

            Considering your total inability to follow one thought with another, you can stop talking to me now.

            I mean, you can continue, but I won’t be responding to your incoherence anymore. People much smarter than me are demonstrating much more patience than I, when dealing with you. I think, for my own state of mind, I will continue to allow them to. Especially after your comments about Hitler and not realizing that he basically put everyone to work for his war machine and stole the wealth of a segment of the population in order to “turn the economy around” and you somehow equate that to the nut job reporting on the Lizard People.

            Good day, I hope you find the medical help you need.

          • Verboten

            If you suddenly get a comment about Catholics, you should have known it was meant for someone else. I make hundreds of posts a day between Disqus and other places, you are not special to me.

            Regardless, nothing you’ve said has had any substance, so please, leave.

          • Damo

            “If you suddenly get a comment about Catholics, you should have known it was meant for someone else. ”

            Yes, because nothing else you have said has been an incoherent pile of illogical dogshit.

            And I have said nothing of substance? What have you contributed, except for “except for the murder of 12 million people, Hitler wasn’t such a bad guy?”

            Anyway, I have done it again. I have allowed some unintelligible, misinformed, ignorant science denying jack arse get the better of my desire for people to use critical thinking. Go about your business, just stop spreading lies about vaccines.

          • Verboten

            Obviously you do not know history in the least, that is sad but expected. Again, a gold ring in a pig’s snout is still a gold ring. I don’t live by feelings, I live by facts.

          • Damo

            Yeah, you have shown how you do not know history. Please, other than the huge undertaking of killing all the Jews and attacking the rest of Europe–how did Hitler turn the economy around?

            Also, Hitler wasn’t special in the highway system, given the use of cars exploding, infrastructure was the next logical step.

          • Verboten

            You don’t know history in the least, please continue to prove so.

          • Damo

            I am giving you the opportunity to prove it. Go ahead, prove I don’t know what I am talking about. Show me where history agrees with you and not me.

            I will take your continued insults as an admission that you are wrong and I am right.

          • Verboten

            1) The reason I brought up Hitler was to demonstrate that a raving lunatic can be correct every once in awhile.

            2) Hilter began the concept of the highway, it was called the Autobahn, maybe you’ve heard of it? Why did Eisenhower build interstates when he became president? Because he saw what the Germans had done.

            3) Only a lunatic would think that what Hitler did was nothing short of astounding. He was an evil, crazy man, but ignoring his accomplishments makes you a fool. The USA military studies the battles fought by pirates, why? Not because they agreed with pirates, but because pirates were quite good at fighting.

            Get a clue.

          • Damo

            Once again, how does any of this prove you were right about the economy.

            Wisconsin had a highway as early as 1917. I mean you were right, about Eisenhower being inspired by the Autobahn, but everything else was wrong.

            And the example you gave about how Hitler was right was wrong. The earth is not hollow. Or was the earth being hollow what you consider to be the ravings of a lunatic?

            I don’t even know why you are talking about pirates now. But, like I said earlier, you are pretty incoherent.

            Get a clue? Read a book.

          • Verboten

            I was using the word “highway” informally, as the autobahn is not a highway. Hitler was the first to construct an “interstate”.

            “Or was the earth being hollow what you consider to be the ravings of a lunatic?”
            Bingo.

            “I don’t even know why you are talking about pirates now”
            You need to learn how to infer meaning from context, especially where brevity is king, the internet comment box.

            You ignore what Hitler accomplished because he was evil, that is what a fool does. A fool is guided by emotions and therefore manipulable. Live by logic, she won’t guide you wrong.

          • Damo

            “I was using the word “highway” informally, as the autobahn is not a highway. Hitler was the first to construct an “interstate”.”

            Sigh. The Lincoln Highway connected New York to San Francisco in 1912. While true that Eisenhower had been inspired by the efficiency of the German highways for his robust vision of the interstate, interstate highways had been mentioned and planned as early as the 1910s, but were downsized drastically because of WWI. Germany is also small compared to a continental nation like the US, so yes, it did have interstate highways that connected most of the nation, but so did individual states here.

            Your original comment was that Hitler made the statement that the earth was hollow and then said even a madman can be right. Now, it is common knowledge that Hitler was responsible for the organization and execution for his “Final Solution” or what we call the holocaust. With no other context accept your statement and common knowledge, you are implying one of two things:

            1. Hitler’s statement that the earth is hollow is correct–which makes you stupid.

            2. Hitler’s statement about the earth was an example of his lunatic ravings–which makes you unethical, since his lunatic ravings have nothing to do with science, but rather the fact that he thought killing 12 million people was acceptable.

            “You need to learn how to infer meaning from context, especially where brevity is king, the internet comment box.”

            The fact that you throw out non sequiters and refuse to explain yourself is more about you then me. Sorry.

            “You ignore what Hitler accomplished because he was evil, that is what a fool does.”

            Nope, wrong. I know what Hitler did. He gave awards to women for having children and was against abortion–which I agree with. He developed the volkswagon–which I agree with. You have failed to show me how he turned the economy around. I can’t seem to find any evidence he did so not related to the holocaust or the war. One thing he did do as lower unemployment by taking women and jews out of the workforce, so yeah, I guess in that sense, he helped the economy.

            Now, I am not trying to say you are wrong just for the sake of winning. I am actually pretty easy to convince, once I see the evidence. I am a novice when it comes to history (though I have taken some college level history courses, including one about WW2) so, I admit, I don’t know everything. But what you are saying is counter to common knowledge. If you provide me with evidence I will change my mind. But you have not done so, you have just continued to insist you are correct without providing any evidence. Please provide evidence and I will change my mind.

            “Live by logic, she won’t guide you wrong.”

            I don’t think you know what those words mean, because you definitely have not shown any logic in any of your posts.

          • Verboten

            You are wrong about the interstates. The American interstate system included dirt road that were uncrossable. Eisenhower took months trying to get across the USA as part of a military study. You have no idea what you are talking about and you are pulling out wikipedia facts just to win an argument that you’ve already lost.

            “Hitler was responsible for the organization and execution for his “Final Solution” ”

            Wrong again, it was Himmler that was out to get the Jews.

            You haven’t a clue, I’m not wasting my time reading your entire post just to point out the mistakes.

          • Damo

            Once again, show me the evidence. Go ahead. Show it to me. I lived on the Lincoln Highway for most of my early life, so I am pretty knowledgeable about its history. And I didn’t say it wasn’t mud, I just said it was there. Hitler did not invent interstates.

            Yeah, I know about Himmler. But once again, you didn’t state that in your original post. And besides that fact, Hitler not only was for the idea–he wrote about it long before he came to power–it is what he is most known for, which was my point.

            You are wrong, Hitler did not turn his economy around, the war and the holocaust did. Now, go ahead and ignore me or cite some evidence.

          • Verboten

            You are a lunatic that does not know history. You can leave now.

          • Damo

            Than teach it to me. You know, with sources and stuff, not what you think history says.

            I told you I was willing to learn.

          • Verboten

            You are not willing to learn, you are willing to copy paste whatever is popular for the time in which you live.

            You will always be on the bottom rung.

          • Damo

            Actually, that sounds a lot like you. I have carefully, over my adult life, figured out my positions. And they are fluid, as in when new evidence comes in they change. I am willing right ow to change. You just have to supply the evidence.

          • Verboten

            What is your educational background? Floor sweep?

          • Damo

            More insults. Maybe you should reflect on that statement you made earlier about logic and emotion.

            Practice what you preach.

          • Verboten

            I do practice what I preach, floor sweep. I don’t ask to be coddled and I won’t coddle you, no matter how loudly you cry.

          • Damo

            This isn’t aboput coddling. I am a big boy. You said emotion was bad. You said logic was good. But you refuse to use logic and instead insult me.

            Show me how I am incorrect. Like show sources. If you are such a genius, prove it.

          • Verboten

            Living by emotions is bad, insulting someone who is a lunatic is good for the herd.

          • Damo

            Lol. Whatever it takes to justify this to yourself.

            I am not even saying you are wrong, I am saying if you have information that is counter to what is currently common knowledge, present it. But you won’t. You have made your position known. You and all the other anti-vaxxers believe what you believe and then seek out evidence that confirms it, rather than the other way around.

          • Verboten

            It is not my job to educate you on reality. I’ve told you the truth, that is more than enough ammunition to discover more of the truth on your own.

            Of course, you are an idiot, so no chance that you will be discovering any new truths today. Bon Voyage, sucker.

          • Damo

            Translation:

            You are making it up on the fly. Quote one historian that agrees with you, that Hitler turned around the economy and it didn’t involve the holocaust or war. I will wait.

          • Verboten

            I don’t need a historian to tell me the truth. I can look at the historical facts surrounding the meteoric rise of the national socialist party.

            Go find a pundit to tell you about reality.

          • Damo

            Good job, who do you think is reporting those historical facts?

            You are consistently wrong, so maybe you want to find a pundit.

          • Verboten

            Pray tell, what do you consider a historical fact, genius?

          • AutismDadd

            He flips burgers

          • Verboten

            Damo, you are an idiot, leave.

          • Damo

            Nah, I think I will stick around. I am interested in all the history you are willing to share.

          • Verboten

            Good for you

          • Verboten

            My God, I started reading your post again…whew, I can barely hold back the insults.

            “since his lunatic ravings have nothing to do with science”

            And, exactly what would a prediction of a hollow earth fall under? Astrology? Lol…

          • Damo

            And you have proved my point.

            You consider his “the earth hollow” statement to be lunatic ravings while ignoring his desire to kill 12 million people to be ok. You just don’t have the mental capacity to have this debate. Good bye and so long, imbecile.

          • Verboten

            “while ignoring his desire to kill 12 million people to be ok”

            ::yawn:: more hyperbole from the lunatic that doesn’t remember that in my initial post (and sprinkled in other posts) I already addressed this.

            Walk into a wall, please.

          • Damo

            Where? You have said that Hitler was crazy because he thought the moon was hollow.

            You said if it wasn’t for the attacking other nations he would be a genius. You have not addressed the Holocaust.

            Now I am beginning to see that you are a denier of more than just science.

          • Verboten

            I am a Jew, moron.

          • Damo

            And that is relevant how?

          • Verboten

            And you wonder why I think you are an idiot…

          • Damo

            How is being a Jew relevant to your correctness on your own statements?

          • Verboten

            Yep, you are a full-blown lunatic. Enjoy chasing your tail.

          • Damo

            I still don’t get it. Is being a Jew permission to be factually incorrect. Even when you have posted what you believe, I point it out, and now you can say “I am a Jew” and reality twists and what you posted no longer exists?

            Go achieve some critical thinking skills and get back to me. Until then, good bye.

          • Verboten

            You were implying that I am a holocaust denier, dolt.

          • Damo

            And being a Jew and Holocaust denier are mutually exclusive?

          • Verboten

            Considering that members of my family were killed and I am only alive and in the USA because some of them escaped…yea, mutually exclusive for a Jew like me.

          • Damo

            That makes your position all the worse, guess you have no shame.

          • Verboten

            No, I am not a blind fool like you are.

          • Damo

            A victim of the Holocaust being a Holocaust deniers is pretty much a perfect example of a blind fool.

          • AutismDadd

            flagged

          • AutismDadd

            Damo…running away with his tail between his legs

          • AutismDadd

            Sock puppet accounts explains that. Dumo likely has many names.

          • AutismDadd

            But you still love him don’t you?

          • shay simmons

            Hitler’s deficit spending 1933-1939 (revenue 62bil marks, expenditure 101bil) resulted in a huge national debt. Not a good example of an economist. He also failed to put the German economy on a war footing until 1942, with subsequent degradation of warfighting capability.

            Hitler moreover did not increase the scientific acumen of his country but instead drove many of Germany’s finest scientific minds into exile. “The allies won because “our German scientists were better than their German scientists”, was the pithy summary of the war’s outcome by one of Churchill’s closest aides, Sir Ian Jacob.” (The Economist – The Road To Hell).

            Edited to add: Much good an improved highway system did him. In 1938 the UK had 5 cars per 100 inhabitants, France had 5.5 cars per 100 inhabitants.

            Germany had 2.3.

          • Verboten

            Yea, you are revealing more ignorance. After WW2 there was an operation paper clip…so much for Germans not having any good scientists left…

            As for the spending, Germany was bankrupt and became a world power overnight. You have no clue how business works much less how a large government works.

            Please, shut up.

          • shay simmons

            “so much for Germans not having any good scientists left…” Never made that claim.

            Germany did not become a world power overnight, in fact would have been far better off delaying the start of the war so that (among other things) they could increase the UBoat fleet they would need to cripple the UK.

          • Verboten

            “Germany did not become a world power overnight, in fact would have been far better off delaying the start of the war”

            What did I say from the beginning, genius? If Hitler hadn’t been stark raving mad, he would have gone down as one of the greatest German leaders in history.

          • shay simmons

            But he was stark raving mad; and his economic policies were cr*ppy.

          • Verboten

            I’m not saying everything he touched turned to gold, but you are letting your emotions cloud your judgment. A sign of education is a person that can separate the good from the bad and also can consider the implications if they are wrong or if the other party is correct.

            I’ve considered if I were wrong and if you were correct, it resulted in a situation that is not equal to reality. Hitler was wildly successful, something that would be impossible if he were a complete dunce. I’m not saying to respect him for it, I am a Jew, obviously I hate Hitler, but I won’t throw out the baby with the bathwater…which is to separate the good from the bad.

          • shay simmons

            Have you read Tooze’s book?

          • Verboten

            “Adam Tooze’s controversial new book challenges the conventional economic interpretations”

            I’m not interested in fringe opinions that are not based in reality. Why are you? Do you feel clever for thinking you’ve found out something other people haven’t or something?

          • shay simmons

            That would be “no” then.

            And I’m hardly Tooze’s only reader.

          • Verboten

            Tooze only wrote his book 8 years ago…is this what they teach in high school now? Lol…

          • shay simmons

            I don’t know what they teach in high school nowadays, but what does the date of Tooze’s book have to do with it?

          • Verboten

            You act like an alternative historian is ubiquitous. Everyone wants to make a name for themselves so they can sell books. My hats off to him for ripping off people like you.

          • shay simmons

            Are you sure ubiquitous is the word you want to use?

          • Verboten

            Yes, genius.

            Ubiquitous:
            present, appearing, or found everywhere

          • shay simmons

            Troove is everywhere? I thought you said he was fringe and alternative.

          • Verboten

            *sighs* I wish I could believe that you were trolling…I sadly believe you are serious D:

          • shay simmons

            Which is it?

          • Verboten

            Learn how to read, learn how to think, reread the comment chain and get back to me.

          • shay simmons

            Why can’t you answer?

          • Damo

            Because he doesn’t understand the words he is using. He doesn’t understand anything.

            Also, he is superior to you or me. Then again, given what we already know about him, I am sure he meant inferior.

          • Verboten

            Because I am not getting paid to coddle you.

          • shay simmons

            Why do you feel answering questions is coddling?

          • Verboten

            Because the questions you asked were the types of questions I expect from a child.

          • shay simmons

            Can you not answer simple questions? I can make them more complex if you’d rather.

          • Verboten

            Are you going to send me a check in the mail for being your educator?

          • shay simmons

            Based on your current performance?

          • Jonathan Graham

            Hitler was wildly successful, something that would be impossible if he were a complete dunce.

            Complete dunces DO succeed for a number of reasons. Sometimes their mental model has enough in common with reality for a period of time that it’s useful or just dumb luck. What we don’t expect is for complete dunces to succeed consistently. Since we are post hoc selecting a successful (in some broad sense) person you can’t – on it’s own – use that as an argument against the likelihood that they are a dunce.

          • Verboten

            Out of your mind.

          • Jonathan Graham

            It’s just math. Same way that people who pick top stocks can be fools.

          • Verboten

            You clearly do not understand how the world works in the least. It is not “math”. If an idiot is making a killing on the stock market it is because he is a front for someone doing insider trading, genius. Probability does not allow for rich idiots unless they are being propped up by something unseen.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Probability does not allow for rich idiots unless they are being propped up by something unseen.

            Of course it does. There is a sufficiently large number of people playing the stock market that someone is going to get sufficiently lucky. This is exactly what you expect from a probabilistic distribution.

          • Verboten

            You cleary do not know how the stock market works nor how probability works.

            I think you should be cursed with drinking Flint water…unless you are speaking like a lunatic because you’ve been drinking lead-tainted water…in which case, everything makes sense.

          • AutismDadd

            I’m sure Jonathon keeps a close watch on his Pharma investments.

          • Jonathan Graham

            You’ve presented no argument to support your position. I’ve mentioned how a distribution works and that the number of people playing the stock market are rather large. My views are supported by both statisticians and traders. For example Taleb is both and you can read that in his first book.

          • Verboten

            No, you twist facts to support your agenda. You cannot answer basic questions concerning law or governments.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Again, if I’ve twisted anything you should be able to state precisely what and where. However all you can do is claim “it’s not like that”. However sadly, for you what I have described is exactly how distributions work and what is reasonable to expect AND the words of traders and statisticians.

          • Verboten

            You cannot even answer simple questions, and yet you don’t think you are twisting???

          • Jonathan Graham

            No, I’ve refused to answer questions which are clearly irrelevant or for which I can not usefully answer. In the former case I’d be happy to answer them if you can provide a strong argument as to their relevance.

            So no, no twisting. Just reason.

          • Verboten

            The law and the government are not irrelevant, genius.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Your questions regarding them were irrelevant in the cases where I specified they were irrelevant and I provided a reasonably detailed explanation why. If you are confused as to why they were irrelevant please cite one of the questions and I’ll explain in more detail. 🙂

          • Verboten

            How is the procedure of evidence in a court of law irrelevant? How is the fact that governments have a history of lying (and specifically lying about vaccines) irrelevant?

          • Jonathan Graham

            How is the procedure of evidence in a court of law irrelevant?

            Addressed here:
            https://disqus.com/home/discussion/filmmakermagazine/notes_on_ivaxxedi_or_not_lying_but_being_wrong/#comment-3004149122

            How is the fact that governments have a history of lying?

            Addressed here: https://disqus.com/home/discussion/filmmakermagazine/notes_on_ivaxxedi_or_not_lying_but_being_wrong/#comment-3003986010

            If you have questions about those explanations please ask but use questions that are specific to the explanation.

          • Verboten

            “A study isn’t a government.”
            Who funds these studies? Ants?

            Concerning the procedure of evidence, your post contains not a single mention of courts, the law, or the procedure of evidence.

            Answer the questions:
            1) Are eye-witnesses an essential and integral part of a case in a court of law?

            2) Do governments have a history of lying? More specifically, have governments ever lied about vaccines in the past?

          • Jonathan Graham

            Who funds

            Well even that’s not relevant until you can first establish the likelihood of the government lying. You’ve been equivocating on that for a while now. After that you can talk about how research funding works.

            Concerning the procedure of evidence, your post contains not a single mention of courts, the law, or the procedure of evidence.

            …and it clearly defines the problem and the metric we need. It also demonstrates that every other metric would be bound by this one. So it doesn’t need to mention it to refute the utility in this particular case.

            Answer the questions:

            Happy to….If you can make an well-supported objective argument for them sure. Otherwise not interested…

          • Verboten

            Ah, you cannot answer the questions, because you know that they defeat your argument.

            Beautiful.

          • Jonathan Graham

            I’m happy to answer them if you can provide a strong argument as to how they are relevant. You can’t, so why bother?

            On the other hand your argument has been defeated for a while now. You don’t have any reason as to why these reports would be anything more than coincidence (as defined by my usage).

          • Verboten

            You still can’t answer basic, relevant questions…

          • Jonathan Graham

            I can. However you can’t provide a reasonably useful argument as to the relevance of said questions. I’ve already refuted the argument. What more is there?

          • Verboten

            You haven’t refuted a single thing, you have avoided direct questions because your agenda is seething and cannot handle the truth.

            Thank you for proving that there is a legitimate reason to be worried about vaccines and to have them investigated.

          • Jonathan Graham

            You haven’t refuted a single thing

            Sure, I’ve demonstrated that the metric we are interested in: How likely is it for a parent to be able to identify a co-incidence from a non-coincidence. Is not a metric you have presented. Since my position is simply that your position isn’t very rational. That’s all I need to make my point.

            Thank you for proving that there is a legitimate reason to be worried about vaccines and to have them investigated.

            I’ll just point out that I find this kind of bullying tactic pretty interesting in terms of evaluating your character.

          • Verboten

            Again, you avoid anything that makes your position weaker.

            Thank you for proving that people should be scared.

          • Jonathan Graham

            If you can tell me how it makes my position weaker. Please do – that would at least be part of arguing for it’s relevance.

            Thank you for proving that people should be scared.

            More bullying. 🙂

          • Verboten

            You done a good job, jon. You’ve proven that people should absolutely be scared of vaccines and any other unknown substances being injected into their body.

            What you have proven is that your side does not have the facts, it has a smokescreen. Your days are numbered.

          • Jonathan Graham

            What you have proven is that your side does not have the facts, it has a smokescreen.

            A smokescreen like someone who can’t even answer the question: “How is your question relevant?” and instead attempts to bully people into answering?

            This appears to be more reflective of you than me. Just sayin’

          • Verboten

            Which vaccine do you think is the safest?

          • Jonathan Graham

            Of the ones on say the Vancouver provincial schedule? It’s probably too close to call. One might be able to make the argument that vaccines without egg products are marginally safer but it would only be in the case of an undisclosed allergy.

          • Verboten

            Interesting. Which vaccines do you think should be mandatory?

          • Jonathan Graham

            Define “mandatory”.

          • Verboten

            Define it however you want, which vaccines do you think are of the highest importance?

          • Jonathan Graham

            So instead of whatever you meant – because you sure can’t tell me for some reason – I’m going to talk about what is “reasonable to require”. It seems reasonable to require some vaccines for school attendance. It also seems reasonable to require a broader set of vaccines for people working in particular circumstances. Like health care or animal control.

            For school I’d probably say that measles is the most reasonable to require. Diphtheria, Rubella, Mumps, Pertussis, Polio are probably slightly less. This list could change depending on circumstances or the country in question or technology.

            None of the current Vancouver schedule seems unreasonable.

          • FallsAngel

            S/he is trying to trap you, Jon. Don’t fall for it!

          • Jonathan Graham

            Oh? So how does this argument go?

          • FallsAngel

            You say ” vaccines without egg products are marginally safer” and s/h/it says “So you think vaccines with egg products are unsafe”, you then have to say “No, I didn’t say that”, s/h/it says “but you said”, and you’re caught up in some endless nonproductive cycle.

            All routine vaccines are safe when appropriately administered.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Could be, that probably won’t work with me. Also just about every conversation with Verb is an unproductive cycle. They also appear somewhat malicious which it’s all that common here. Not just verbally abusive but has some real desire to see someone else harmed.

          • AutismDadd

            You want FalseAngel’s opinion? Snicker

          • AutismDadd

            Its called a debate and Verboten is serving up a can o whoop-ass

          • AutismDadd

            Now its bullying not harassment. Hammy sounds paranoid

          • Jonathan Graham

            Just telling it like it is.

          • AutismDadd

            Maybe you have a psychological issue and are not fit for shilling

          • Jonathan Graham

            Deflect all you want. I’ve told the truth here.

          • AutismDadd

            Typical Ham crap.

          • AutismDadd

            Notice people that J Graham is on Disqus at all times and must be employed to do so.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Something you would have to be pretty ignorant to believe.

          • AutismDadd

            Lets check the data….you post all day, every day

          • Jonathan Graham

            Nope. It’s pretty easy to see that’s not true. Unless of course you’re not looking. Which you aren’t. 🙂

          • AutismDadd

            Jonathon is pretty clueless isn’t he?

          • Damo

            You seem to be an expert on everything lately.

          • Verboten

            Not my fault that I spend time reading instead of living in a dreamworld of entertainment.

          • Damo

            Comic books don’t count.

          • Verboten

            Clearly I am not talking about comic books, child.

          • Damo

            But you haven’t shown that you have the intellect to understand anything beyond “pow” and “kaboom” so what are those of us beyond the age of twelve supposed to do? Ignore all the evidence that you can’t think like an adult?

          • Ron Roy

            Then follow your own advise.

          • Damo

            OK, now I need to hear the evidence for this. I would get out my popcorn, but you have yet to prove that you think about anything you type, so I doubt you will be coming back with any kind of explanation.

          • Verboten

            If my statement needs explaining, you aren’t smart enough to understand the explanation.

          • Damo

            Translation: you haven’t a clue.

          • Verboten

            No, you are an idiot with no reading comprehension skills. My 3 year old niece has more sense than you do.

          • Damo

            You state something factually incorrect, I point it out, ask where you got it, you say you don’t have to provide any proof that you are correct, and I am the one dumber than a 3 yr old?

            You are hysterical.

          • shay simmons

            I don’t think anyone would argue Hitler was a dunce. Crazy, and made far too many stupid strategic decisions, but not a dunce.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Technically I’m not arguing that. Verb is picking from his library of skeezy argumentation techniques here. In this case he’s picking a more extreme example. I was just pointing out that even were he a dunce you can still count on dunces to win a few. So you can’t argue that success implies intelligence (continuous success would be a different matter). This creates a problem when we look at things from a historical perspective because a lot if not all of our stories are about winners. So we are skewing are sample. IMHO anyway.

          • shay simmons

            Can’t argue with that.

          • Ron Roy

            Oh come on argue with each other it’s fun to see.

          • AutismDadd

            Well said, a dunce can win a few. Congratulations are in order then.

          • Ron Roy

            Mad because he was being treated with compounds of mercury ( the medical cure of the day ) for syphilis.

          • Damo

            Ahh, I relish when the science deniers get schooled, but from multiple fronts, this is even better.

          • Ron Roy

            WHALE / VACCINE for REAL SCIENCE folks.

          • Damo

            It is trolls like Verboten that make me appreciate the innocent, yet ignorant, philistines like yourself.

          • Mike Stevens

            “WHALE / VACCINE for REAL SCIENCE folks.”
            Does the upper case make it even more real?

          • Ron Roy

            Just trying to make sure people see it. WHALE / VACCINE folks check it out. Go see what all these MEDICAL MAFIA soldiers don’t want you to know.

          • Mike Stevens

            Please, people, do go to whale.
            I can’t think of a better way of demonstrating the meaninglessness of the case against vaccination.

          • shay simmons

            Please, please go to Whale and get your quota of laughs for the day.

          • David W

            The upper case helps. But the truth comes from Ron’s assertion.

          • shay simmons

            “. Anti-vaxxers are remarkably dumb and gullible. They just keep passing stuff around; nobody fact checks anything. Anti-vaxxers say whatever they want, with absolutely no regard for the truth, and people believe it. Even when things anti-vax websites say turn out to be obviously untrue, anti-vaxxers don’t mind and cheerfully accept it any way.” Amy Tuteur.

          • FallsAngel

            Yes, and they don’t even fact-check the simplest stuff. The mythical “Japanese Immunization Schedule”, which supposedly shows that they don’t start vaccines until age 2,3,4, whatever in Japan, can be easily checked. http://www.nih.go.jp/niid/images/vaccine/schedule/2014/EN20140401-02.pdf

            The same with “France doesn’t give routine Hep B” http://vaccine-schedule.ecdc.europa.eu/Pages/Scheduler.aspx

            and other such dreck.

          • shay simmons

            Or “wild measles hasn’t killed anybody.”

          • Ron Roy

            Deficit spending hemmmmm…. Oh you mean like the US’s 19 trillion dollar debt?

          • Wes

            U r typing this from your underground bunker aren’t

          • shay simmons

            You’re a fan of deficit spending and national debt, Ron? I’d not have guessed.

          • Ron Roy

            If you were to take a course in reading comprehension you would have understood that I’m AGAINST deficit spending.

          • Damo

            But then you say deficit spending is ok?

          • shay simmons

            If you were to ever learn to recognize sarcasm, Ron….

          • Verboten

            You have no idea what you are talking about. You are regurgitating something you read without even thinking about it or its context.

            What was the state of the German economy before Hitler?

          • shay simmons

            I thought you had gone over this already?

          • Verboten

            Had to revisit the nonsense.

          • shay simmons

            Was it nonsense the first time you posted it?

          • Verboten

            You are a pathetic child who does not know history. Good, you will never be rich 😀

          • shay simmons

            Was it?

          • Ron Roy

            The Volkswagen was his idea. Even mercury brain damaged sociopaths can have good ideas.

          • Jonathan Graham

            However he could believe in those things and have a high standard of evidence. The point being is that clearly he doesn’t have that which makes the average quality of Whale articles exceptionally low. Probably too low to bother with.

          • AutismDadd

            Ham’s opinion is NOT the final word. Readers, do your own reading and IGNORE this professional poster.

          • Jonathan Graham

            I’m simply pointing out the implication that comes from whale articles.

          • AutismDadd

            No you are misleading people because you have an addiction to being dishonest. Too bad, no pill, no vaccine for that DISEASE!!!!

          • Jonathan Graham

            Nope. The person in charge of posting articles to whale’s beliefs are not as interesting as them being chronically disabled in the fact checking department.

          • AutismDadd

            But your opinion is worthless….now what?

          • AutismDadd

            Fact checking should fall on the researcher’s shoulders, not Whale’s or newspapers, etc So you have exposed how nonchalant researchers are.

          • JGC

            If you publish an article, either electronically or in print, you have an obligation to fact check the claims made therein.

          • AutismDadd

            screw off

          • Jonathan Graham

            Fact checking should fall on the researcher’s shoulders, not Whale’s or newspapers

            Fact checking, as in checking that something is true before you publish it. Is almost universally agreed to be part of the job of newspapers. Researchers need to do their work carefully and use proper procedure and experimental design.

            So you have exposed how nonchalant researchers are.

            Just the ones that end up in Whales library. Which are clearly selected on the basis of their ideology and with no care toward accuracy. So anything no matter how stupid is allowed if not encouraged. The same can’t be said for quite a lot of journals.

          • AutismDadd

            Excuse me while I yawn

          • Jonathan Graham

            It’s simply the truth.

          • Ron Roy

            He make me puke.

          • AutismDadd

            I fully understand…they are all sickening.

          • David W

            WOW!
            No wonder someone like Trump can win. Ideology trumps everything.

            You do know researchers are in the habit of scrutinizing other researchers work? The methodology, the results, the math, the conclusions…all of it. Nobody gets a free pass on crap research.

          • Damo

            Don’t be so hard on AutismDadd, he has his hands full, with raising a fictional handicapped child AND trolling these forums 24 hours a day insulting anyone with more brain cells than him (which is pretty much everyone).

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Or he could be like JGC who believes in God but can differentiate what he believes to be true from what he knows to be true.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Yes. Although I rather suspect that the reason we don’t see these anti-vaccine sites containing only “A class” evidence. Is because they would be pretty much empty.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Frankly, at this point, I’d settle for an anti-vaccine site that

            -Can manage basic chemistry distinctions (I won’t even make them figure out the difference between ethyl mercury and methyl mercury – just elements vs compounds)
            -Can count from 0 to 100 without skipping any of the numbers in between
            -Can manage 5th grade maths
            -Can manage to avoid the major logical fallacies.

            Let me know if you ever find one…..

          • shay simmons

            Perhaps you could hook up with Diogenes….

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Shay, you are gonna have to hide when the vaccine fallacy investigation starts

          • AutismDadd

            If medical journals were valid there would be few of them and few pages within.

          • JGC

            Explain how you’ve arrived at that conclusion, AD.

          • AutismDadd

            Simple so even you can understand. They are filled with junk science and investigation into that shows it. When people claim thousands of studies show no vaccine autism connection, its nonsense. Why would thousands of studies need to be done, and if they have been, research money has been tossed out the window.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Journals publish a lot of things which are exceptionally small scale. There are lots of small scale things to research.

          • AutismDadd

            Oh I’m sure. We call that a waste of research money

          • Jonathan Graham

            By “we” you mean “idiots”? I’d guess so. You usually start with small scale research in order to avoid wasting money by doing everything with 3000 participants.

          • AutismDadd

            In every case? Prove that.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Note the use of the word “usually”. Read. Think. THEN post.

          • AutismDadd

            So you USUALLY post crap.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Again, you should have read what I said then you wouldn’t have made that mistake.

          • AutismDadd

            Reading your posts cures insomnia. So if I seem a touch slow its because your prattle is coma inducing.

          • Jonathan Graham

            *insert obvious joke about Adad*

          • Ron Roy

            Check out:

            http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html folks and see why Proponent, and other shills, keep denigrating that site. Learn the truth about vaccines.

          • Damo

            What? So you use the prediction that someday, far off in the future, someone could implant nano-particles as proof that today’s vaccines are bad.

            Your grasp of logic is nonexistent.

          • AutismDadd

            Wow what a DUH MOMENT. What does logic have to do with predicting the future?

          • Damo

            Once again, you proudly display how ill-equipped you are for an intelligent conversation.

          • AutismDadd

            I need an intelligent partner…leaves you out shill

          • Damo

            Yes, you need an intelligent partner, I was sure I made that clear above.

          • AutismDadd

            Fine. I’ll wait while you keep parroting nonsense.

          • AutismDadd

            Hardly Mr logic who has no clue about logic.

          • Verboten

            Actually, my grasp of logic is sublime, and I don’t need someone wearing a pointy hat to tell me how to think about what I can read for myself.

            The Catholics have been behind so much evil, that one should already be suspicious about them, and when one looks at what is being taught to Catholics and how Catholicism mirrors the local religions wherever it is in the world, it becomes clear that Catholics are not followers of Christ.

          • Damo

            You haven’t shown your sublime grasp of logic yet.

            What do Catholics have to do with anything?

          • Verboten

            Aren’t you the popetian?

          • Damo

            I also wanted to point out that attacking my religion is not logical. But even if it were, you would be incorrect.

            First, I was raised Catholic but am now an agnostic. I don’t really believe in anything except that we are all just the products of biology. Our neural programming is what drives us, not a soul.

            But that is irrelevant because…

            2. Jesus said Peter was his rock. Peter formed the church, and was the first pope. He formed the church and the church is directly descended from Peter. All decisions that were made by the church are divine. Why? Because Jesus, being half-god, was omniscient enough to foresee every consequence of naming Peter the head of his church, and did so anyway. Therefore, Catholic doctrine is the only real doctrine and Catholics are the only real Christians. Or so one would believe if they applied logic to a fantasy book.

          • Verboten

            So, you should be studying biology like crazy…ah right, you don’t actually care about why you exist, you just want to live for pleasure. Got it.

            Also, Peter was not the first pope, genius. Catholicism is in direct violation of many of Christ’s principles.

            You have no idea what you are talking about. Stop.

          • Damo

            I know he wasn’t the first pope. I was using that as an illustration of how you don’t understand logic.

            Just stop saying logic is your friend if you do not plan to use it.

            Also, how is Catholicism in direct violation of Christ’s teachings? This ought to be good.

            And another insult. From the guy who preached to me about emotion.

            You are just proving that you are so dumb that you don’t know how dumb you are.

          • Verboten

            You don’t even have a real education. You have no idea what you are talking about…and you are mad because you are being outed for being the fool that you are.

            Catholics pray to the dead and call the pope “father” when Christ explicitly forbids His disciples from calling any person “father” or “rabbi”. Catholics have literally burned Christians at the stake…enslaved entire continents…

            It’s like you were born in a box and still live in it today.

          • Damo

            I am not mad about anything.

            I actually agree with you in part. Catholics are not mono-theists like Christ was. I just wanted to see what you would pull out of your ass.

            Now I know.

          • Verboten

            You are mad, that is why you are incessently posting to someone who is superior to you and continues to insult you.

            Enjoy your weak life.

          • Damo

            You sure do project, don’t you.

            I will admit that one of my bad habits is finding entertainment in watching people try to rationalize that their uninformed opinions are actually accurate facts. That is mainly why I keep coming back. I find you humorous, the way one would find a cat with his head stuck in a can humorous.

          • Verboten

            Project what? That you were mad? You were. The fact that you can’t admit to it tells me a lot about you and your character. Pathetic.

          • Damo

            You were the one dispensing insults and I was laughing at your piss poor reasoning skills. Not sure how you concluded that I was mad.

            Then again, Nazis killed your family and Hitler is only a bad guy because he thought the earth was hollow, so you are apparently deeply confused.

          • Verboten

            You deserve to be insulted. You are pretending to be smart while being a dope. That is what we call a pseudointellectual…you are a disease on this planet.

            Only an idiot, like you, believes that Hitler was not wildly successful. Yes, he killed members of my family, just as Stalin did, but that does not mean I need to be emotional about it and not learn from my enemy.

            You are a pathetic human being that has been trained to think like a dog. Need a treat, pup?

          • Damo

            First of all, let’s not even pretend you actually composed this post on your own. Because everyone, including you and me, know that you just copy and pasted someone else’s criticisms about you and directed them toward me. How do we know that? Because everything you said, except for one line, describes you to a T.

            However, the line about Hitler being successful. Yeah, that explains a lot. I heard about you guys, but I thought you were a myth. Looks like there are self-hating Jews after all.

          • Verboten

            “the line about Hitler being successful”

            ::yawn:: You cannot even accept reality, what a dope.

          • Damo

            A self-hating Jew telling me about accepting reality. Gotcha.

            You have been proven wrong about statistics, economics, and history. And that is just this thread. You claim to make hundreds of posts per day, so I can figure that you are wrong on hundreds of topics. Enjoy, your reality.

          • Verboten

            Oh yea, I wonder why there was a world war over Germany, must have been because they were so weak…

          • Damo

            Who said Germany was weak? I just stated that when you take half the population out of the workforce, unemployment us artificially lower, when you nationalize most industry, steal the wealth of a significant portion of your citizenry, bulk up your economy by using IOUs, force people into slave labor, and send all the young men into war, the results are more about being a tyrant and less about sound economic policies that are enjoyed by all.

            But what do I know, I happen to think that claiming the earth is hollow is not Hitler’s worst act.

            Get a clue and stop posting drivel.

          • Verboten

            How much was german money worth before Hitler and how much was it worth before the onset of WW2?

            Who ever said a hollow earth was hitler’s worst act, idiot? Only a true imbecile would ever misinterpret my words to say such a thing. No wonder I don’t have any respect for you…

          • Damo

            You don’t have any respect for me? Big freaking deal. The guy who doesn’t understand the topics he is ranting about, implies that killing Jews is ok, and uses insults as a debate strategy doesn’t respect me? Whatever shall I do?

            When you turn 15, we can have a big boy conversation.

          • Verboten

            “implies that killing Jews is ok”

            Only a moron would be able to twist my words to mean that. Again, no surprise that I have no respect for you.

          • Damo

            These are your words, even the ellipses are yours:

            “Hitler thought the Earth was hollow…people can be crazy and occasionally correct as well.”

            So, either Hitler was correct for thinking the earth was hollow, or you think the crazy part of Hitler’s ideology was that the earth is hollow. You have already made it clear, through your various posts, what you believe.

            Making a fool out of you and laughing at your childish insults was kind of fun, but your complete self-hatred is worrisome. I hope you can get some psychological help and move on, being a Jew is no worse than being an African, Asian, Caucasian, or whatever else. We all have flaws.

            Let me know when you become a well-adjusted person, and maybe we can talk about your improving your critical thinking skills.

          • Verboten

            You are such an imbecile. The only reason I keep responding is to inject into your subconscious that you will fail.

            Do you believe that thinking the Earth is hollow is intelligent?

            Do you believe that bringing a country from complete collapse to a world power in 1 decade is pathetic?

            Do you know how much I loathe your stupidity?

          • Damo

            And another almost laughable post.

            Stop hating yourself, it does no good to those members of your family that died under the hands of the very man you now insist was only crazy because he thought the earth was hollow.

            Like I said, after you find some self-worth, we will work on your critical thinking skills.

            Also, your reading comprehension and composition skills need some work.

            Boy, you just need a complete overhaul in the mental department.

          • Verboten

            Hey, idiot, why are you still posting?

          • Damo

            I told you before, I get entertainment out of watching your inane attempts to rationalize your ridiculous stand. I am not proud of it, but seeing someone bask in their own ignorance makes me smile.

            Why do you? Sadist?

          • Verboten

            Keep wasting your time typing. You aren’t even a footnote in my day.

          • Damo

            Yeah, like I said, I don’t care, you are entertaining.

            Do you think the cast of Cheers cares that I still watch old epsiodes on Netflix? Nope, but they make me laugh all the same.

            So do you.

            And, really, who are you fooling, you respond to everything I say. You are attention starved and I am providing the attention you so desperately need.

          • Verboten

            Keep it coming. I just go down the comment list at 200+ wpm. Again, not even a footnote.

          • Damo

            You may want to read a little slower, that may help with your comprehension.

            “Again, not even a footnote.” Yeah, that is why you respond like a dog coming after being called.

            Just admit that you are so entirely involved in this that you need my acceptance and I will give it to you (not really, I will help you get the help you need, though).

          • Verboten

            Don’t really care about someone that denies reality so blatantly. Kindly go walk into a wall.

          • Damo

            For someone that doesn’t care, you have invested a lot of time and energy into proving how much you don’t care. What’s the matter, never thought someone that actually knows something would challenge you?

          • Verboten

            I’ve invested almost no time in you. Only 1 second for this post.

          • Ron Roy

            “Tetanus is a
            very rare disease in developed countries: there are only about 12 cases of
            tetanus per year in Australia, and half of those who got it were vaccinated.
            Perhaps the most interesting thing about tetanus is that those who get it do not
            develop immunity to it………Far from immunising,
            tetanus (and other) vaccine injections make the recipients more susceptible to
            diseases. ……the New England Journal of Medicine
            published in 1984 that tetanus booster injections result in the same derangement
            of T4 and T8 cells as seen in AIDS patients. A ‘mysterious’ new syndrome emerged
            in the US: thousands of children are developing AIDS symptoms (with deranged T4
            and T8 cells) without being HIV positive My well-considered opinion is that it
            comes from that T (standing for tetanus) in the DPT vaccine.”—Viera
            Scheibner

          • Proponent

            I am embarrassed for you, Ronald.

            Kinda sad, really.

          • Damo

            Ron Roy is dishonest. Vaccines are huge in preventing diseases. They prevent the best diseases. Ron Roy is dishonest. Sad.

            /trump

          • AutismDadd

            “They prevent the best diseases”…next!

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            This is fun, I love bating septics.

          • Ron Roy

            “Doctors maintain that the (MMR) inoculation is necessary to
            prevent measles encephalitis, which they say occurs about once in 1,000 cases. After
            decades of experience with measles, I question this statistic, and so do many other
            pediatricians. The incidence of 1/1,000 may be accurate for children who live in
            conditions of poverty and malnutrition, but in the middle-and upper-income brackets, if
            one excludes simple sleepiness from the measles itself, the incidence of true encephalitis
            is probably more like 1/10,000 or 1/100,000.”——Dr Mendelsohn

            “I would consider the risks associated with measles vaccination
            unacceptable even if there were convincing evidence that the vaccine works. There isn’t.
            While there has been a decline in the incidence of the disease, it began long before the
            vaccine was introduced. In 1958 there were about 800,000 cases of measles in the United
            States, but by 1962-the year before a vaccine appeared-the number of cases had dropped by
            300,000. During the next four years, while children were being vaccinated with an
            ineffective and now abandoned “killed virus” vaccine, the number of cases
            dropped another 300,000. In 1900 there were 13.3 measles deaths per 100,000 population. By
            1955, before the first measles shot, the death rate had declined 97.7 percent to only 0.03
            deaths per 100,000.”–Dr Mendelsohn MD

          • shay simmons

            Isn’t it interesting that Mendelsohn is careful not to mention the morbidity rate, only the mortality rate?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            That is because dying is a more important stat. It is interesting that doctors ‘report’ notifications on disease but not mortality. that is because doctors can lie to create a favourable data set, mortality is harder to lie because we notice bodies stacking up.

            Did you really try to pretend that we wouldn’t notice your sleight of hand, surprised you didn’t quote the Helsinki protocol and give us a full sweep of septic vaccine woo ology.

            Do you think Dorit had her babies foreskin removed for some ancient religious ritual or did it just fall off? Maroon

          • Mike Stevens

            “if one excludes simple sleepiness from the measles itself, the incidence of true encephalitis is probably more like 1/10,000 or 1/100,000.”——Dr Mendelsohn”

            So he is supposedly claiming this, all based upon his previous “decades” of experience?

            Tell us Ron, do you think Mendelsohn personally saw 100,000 cases of measles in his professional lifetime?

          • Ron Roy

            No more than you so why should anyone believe you ( a paid soldier of the MEDICAL MAFIA ) over an honest caring doctor who called it the way it is.

          • Mike Stevens

            So I take it you have no answer to the obvious…
            …Namely that he must be lying if he thinks he has cared for that many measles cases.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Ron you are arguing with septic vaccine fallacists. They are like the moonies but believe in the highest form of pseudo science maroonyness. The vaccine investigation is coming, they are like the withdrawing loonies of some needle stick cult, let them go! They don’t have long, Mikey Moose Stevens, Shagg Simmons they all post on other septic blogs and get their nuts rubbed for it.

          • Ron Roy

            Statements with 0 proof. Getting desperate heh Damo.

          • AutismDadd

            Damo” Vaccines prevent the best diseases”…buh wah ha ha

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Best diseases are the ones that make the most money and need ‘maintenance medication’. We are talking to the McDonalds equivalent of disease management here AD, the orks of pseudo science.

          • Damo

            I was being sarcastic. Notice it was done in the style of Trump Tweet.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            I think you are confusing sarcastic with totally stupid, well I suppose the septic vaccine fallacist is already there so maroon must seem normal. Check out science based medicine, there are some total loons there.

          • Damo

            Considering how often it happens, getting banned must be your proudest accomplishment.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hey Dunny, you got a comprehension issue there. Vaccines are dishonest, Roy is pointing that out

          • Damo

            Yeah, you are about as smart as verboten up there. Vaccines are not capable of either honesty or dishonesty.

            How did you ever pass the second grade?

          • Ron Roy

            No logical response hey? I feel sorry for all the lives you destroy by promoting vaccines.

          • sabelmouse

            nobody in their right mind, and capable of rational thought would ever listen to them.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            hey propellant, you are a vaccine fallacy component, and you are embarrassed about it, I guess you like S and M then.

          • AutismDadd

            Yep they trumpet the virtues of their faulty, fraudulent products, but whisper (because they are forced to admit faults) side effects as if they are non issues.

          • shay simmons

            Would that be Viera Scheibner, the paleontologist?

          • Ron Roy

            Did you miss the name doctor Mendelsohn?

          • shay simmons

            The Mendelsohn who is not actually licensed to practice medicine?

          • Ron Roy

            No wrong one. Citations please. Oh you don’t have any. I see talking out of your anus again.

          • AutismDadd

            shaynus

          • shay simmons

            That would be Robert Mendelsohn?

          • Ron Roy

            2 upvotes again for asking a question. Boy you shills stick together don’t you. Are you all paid by the same MEDICAL CRIME FAMILY?

          • shay simmons

            If you want to know who pays me Ron, all you have to do is ask.

          • Ron Roy

            Doctor Robert Mendelsohn NEVER ( see that? ) NEVER lost his license to practice medicine. You’re suffering from anusitis again. 3 upvotes fro being wrong. You shills really stick together don’t you? Same employer I presume.

          • shay simmons

            He is not licensed to practice medicine because he has been dead for thirty years.

          • Ron Roy

            You said he had LOST his license. But being the liar and shill that you are you’ll deny this. And your credentials are………………?

          • shay simmons

            I did? Where?

          • Mike Stevens

            Ah, the one who was opposed to coronary bypass, and then himself died of a myocardial infarction.

          • Ron Roy

            So what? He was right. He never claimed to know everything but he did a lot of research on vaccines. He admitted that all his kids were vaccinated but after doing a lot of research and from personal observations he believed it was far better to not vaccinate. His grandchildren were never vaccinated. His books are available on Amazon and all have an extremely high rating.

          • Mike Stevens

            So your ranking criteria for scientific validity would appear to be as follows, Ron…
            1. Mentioned on Whale.to.
            2. Good ratings for a book on Amazon
            3. Mentioned in Internet dispatches.

            We understand. Thank heavens scientists don’t work out of the same playbook.

          • Mike Stevens

            “he did a lot of research on vaccines”

            Oh, really?
            Can you link to a few of his published research papers for me then?
            (I can’t seem to find them)

          • Ron Roy

            Even a lowly soldier in the MEDICAL CRIME SYNDICATE as yourself knows that getting any medical journal to publish anything that would cast doubts on the safety of vaccines is impossible. Nice try though. WHALE / VACCINE FOLKS

          • Mike Stevens

            That’s funny… I can find plenty of published research critical of vaccines. How do these people get their work published when Mendelsohn can’t?
            The answer is that he never did any “research” of any merit. None.

            But go ahead, maintain your delusion that he did if you wish… It won’t hurt you.

          • shay simmons

            getting any medical journal to publish anything that would cast doubts on the safety of vaccines is impossible.

            Aren’t you the poster who was just bragging yesterday about Hugh Fudenberg and his 850 published papers?

            (Consistency, thy name is Ron Roy. Not).

          • Ron Roy

            His 850 published paper didn’t say anything critical about vaccines it was only when he questioned the safety of aluminum in vaccines that all of a sudden those 850 paper meant nothing and he was promptly thrown out of the MEDICAL MAFIA. shay try saying something that isn’t so easy to rebut.

          • shay simmons

            You’ve read all 850 of his published papers, Ron? That’s amazing, considering that we’re still waiting for you to read the Golding & Scott study.

          • Ron Roy

            Ok big mouth find one of his 850 papers that did say anything critical about vaccines.

          • shay simmons

            You made the claim Ron; burden of proof. BTW, have you read that Golding & Scott study yet?

          • Ron Roy

            You have a serious lack of reading comprehension.

          • shay simmons

            You owe me another irony meter, Ron.

          • Ron Roy

            I love it 4 upvotes for asking a question. lol Yes that Viera Scheibner. Funny how you left out all her other qualifications and degrees:

            Viera Scheibner, Ph.D. CV

            [back] Viera Scheibner, Ph.D.

            [This was taken from
            Wikipedia.
            The Whale editor created that page to her as you can see in the
            history

            page. The Allopathic editors tried to

            delete her page. and you can see their links to AMA shill quackwatch
            and other sites attacking her. One good thing about Wikipedia is someone
            produced this.]

            Education and career

            Viera Scheibner was born in Bratislava (formerly Czechoslovakia, now Slovak
            Republic). During her distinguished career, she wrote three books and had over
            90 scientific papers published in prestigious peer-reviewed journals in
            Australia and overseas.[1]

            In 1953, Viera Scheibner studied medicine at the Medical Faculty (school) of
            the Czechoslovak state-run Jan Masaryk University in Brno, before enrolling in
            the Faculty of Natural Sciences, and in 1954 transferred to the Jan Amos
            Comenius University in Bratislava where she graduated in 1958. During 1958-1961,
            she became a lecturer in the Department of Geology and Palaeontology of the Jan
            Amos
            Comenius University,
            Bratislava
            and was also a Senior Lecturer 1962-1967, at the Department of Geology and
            Palaeontology at Comenius University. Dr. Scheibner was awarded a doctorate in
            Natural Sciences (RNDR) from the Jan Amos Comenius University in Bratislava in
            1964. In 1967-1968 she served as Senior Associate Professor (Docent) at the
            Department of Geology and Palaeontology of Jan Amos Comenius University,
            Bratislava. During her academic career 1958-1968 in Bratislava, she published 35
            scientific papers and one monograph concerning the Cretaceous and Jurassic
            Foraminifera of the Carpathian Klippen Belt in Slovakia.[1]

            In 1968, Dr. Scheibner immigrated to Australia and assumed a position as a
            Micropalaeontologist with the Geological Survey of New South Wales, Department
            of Mines, later becoming the Department of Mineral Resources. During her
            employment 1968 to 1987 with the Geological Survey of New South Wales, she held
            various titles as a research scientist, including principal research scientist
            until her retirement from the Department of Mineral Resources in 1987.
            [1]

            The primary emphasis of Dr. Scheibner’s work in Australia with the NSW
            Department of Mines was the study of the Cretaceous and Permian Foraminifera of
            the Great Australian Basin in New South Wales. She also studied the South
            Australian and the Carnarvon Basins in Western Australia, South Africa and the
            Indian Peninsula, and the Permian Foramin­ifera of the Sydney Basin. From 1972
            to 1976 Dr. Scheibner was invited to participate in the highly prestigious Deep
            Sea Drilling Project conducted under the auspices of the Scripps Institution of
            Oceanography (U.S.A.), in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans. The results of these
            studies were published in the Initial Reports of the Deep Sea Drilling Project (DSDP);
            she was also invited to write a Synopsis of Cretaceous Foraminifera of the
            Indian Ocean, published in a monograph entitled Synopsis of the DSDP in the
            Indian Ocean. [1]

            Research on the subject of vaccines

            In 1986, pediatric researchers studying Crib Death Syndrome or
            Sudden Infant Death Syndrome (SIDS) believed babies were dying because of an
            inborn fault in the breathing control center in the brain.[2][3]
            Between 1986-1990 Dr. Scheibner and her late husband, Leif Karlsson, a Swedish
            bio-medical engineer specializing in patient monitoring systems, developed
            Cotwatch, a breathing monitor for babies. The Cotwatch sensor pad was placed
            under the mattress, as no monitors were attached to the body and the baby had
            full unobstructed movement in the cot, while the breathing was monitored. In the
            computer print-outs of the breathing patterns, a stress-induced breathing
            pattern was apparent, with clusters of low-volume breathing hypopnea
            occurring around certain critical days following day zero which almost always
            turned out to be when vaccines were given. Her consequential study of cot death
            data revealed the same pattern.[4][5][6]

            Dr. Scheibner and her husband were not critical of vaccines at this time and
            didn’t even know about the controversy surrounding vaccinations. At this point,
            the pediatricians with the Crib Death Management Center stopped sending parents
            to obtain the Cotwatch monitor.[6]
            Until that time, Dr. Scheibner was actually pro-vaccination. The results of the
            Cotwatch studies prompted Dr. Scheibner to start researching all aspects of
            vaccinations and systematically searched through medical libraries and medical
            journals for articles concerning vaccines and vaccinations. In 1991, Dr.
            Scheibner presented some of the results of her findings from the Cotwatch
            breathing monitor to the Second Immunisation Conference in Canberra, Australia.[7].[6]

            In her pursuit of researching and educating herself about vaccines, she
            reviewed and studied more than 30,000 pages of data published in medical
            journals about Crib Deaths after vaccinations. Based on her extensive literature
            search, Dr. Scheibner in 1993 published a 296-page book entitled Vaccination
            100 years of scientific research shows that vaccines represent a medical assault
            on the immune system,[8]
            published by the Australian Print Group, Victoria; the book has also been
            translated and published in various languages around the world, the German by
            Hirthammer Verlag, the Dutch by Lemniscast Publishers, and the Finnish by
            Kustantaja Lasse Vajaranta.[6]

            Her book Vaccination[9]
            documents what she believes has been published on the ingredients that are in
            vaccines, what effects have been observed on the immune system, neurological
            system and other systems and organs of injecting this material into the body,
            the published failures of vaccines to prevent diseases, and the documented
            sensitising effect of vaccines. The book also lists literature she regards to be
            the positive effects of properly managed childhood diseases, namely measles,
            mumps, rubella, chickenpox and whooping cough, in priming and maturing the
            immune system of a child, lowering the risk of serious diseases such as cancer
            later in life.[6]

            Since publishing Vaccination,[10]
            she has continued her study, writing a second book, Behavioural Problems in
            Childhood – The Link to Vaccination,[11]
            and published two papers in the Journal of Australasian College of
            Nutritional & Environmental Medicine, one on
            shaken baby syndrome
            and the other on her research with Cotwatch.[4]

            On invitation, she has addressed conferences, other health professionals,
            lawyers and parents, in many countries. She has also written expert witness
            reports for vaccine damage court cases and over 90 cases of alleged
            shaken baby syndrome on what is documented in the medical literature about
            vaccines causing injuries that are typically blamed on shaking the baby.

            Viera Scheibner was born March 27, 1935 in Bratislava (formerly
            Czechoslovakia, now Slovak Republic). Her parents were employed in Law Courts.
            She first married in 1954 and had two daughters. In 1953, Viera Scheibner
            studied medicine at the Medical Faculty of Jan Masaryk University in Brno. She
            changed to the Faculty of Natural Sciences of the same university, and in 1954
            transferred to the Jan Amos Comenius University in Bratislava where she
            graduated in 1958. She was awarded a doctorate in Natural Sciences (RNDR) from
            the Jan Amos Comenius University in Bratislava in 1964. Dr. Scheibner served as
            Senior Associate Professor (Docent) in 1967. Thereafter, she served as a
            principal research scientist until her retirement from the Department of Mineral
            Resources in 1987.

            In 1991, Dr. Scheibner presented some of the results of her findings
            from the Cotwatch breathing monitor to the Second Immunisation Conference in
            Canberra, Australia. In 1993, she authored the book entitled Vaccination which
            was subsequently translated into several languages. From 1996 to the present,
            she has prepared some 90 reports for Shaken Baby Syndrome (SBS) cases and/or
            vaccine injury compensation cases in the U.S., U.K., Germany, Iceland, Sweden,
            and Australia. Dr. Scheibner has also authored several books on adverse
            vaccination effects.

            Since 1994, Dr. Scheibner has traveled extensively throughout Australia,
            Europe, United Kingdom, Republic of Ireland, Scandinavia, the U.S., and Canada,
            holding seminars on the dangers and ineffectiveness of vaccination, as
            documented by orthodox medical research, for parents and health and medical
            professionals

            Dr. Scheibner perceives her task as that of liaising with pediatricians
            and other medical experts, and of evaluation of the scientific research dealing
            with vaccination issues in general—and more particularly, with mass vaccination
            of infants and children. She has gathered a solid, extensive and irrefutable
            block of scientific evidence documenting vaccines as ineffective in the
            prevention of diseases, and has time and again issued warnings about a variety
            of real dangers, including brain hemorrhages and other brain damage, retinal
            hemorrhages and other ophthalmological injuries, as well as vaccine fatalities.
            The biological mechanisms of these injries are principally immunological and
            toxic-chemical. Dr. Scheibner has analyzed medical records and results of
            medical tests of some babies adversely affected or killed by vaccination and has
            documented the damage by case examples of the same vaccine damage described in
            orthodox medical literature.

            An additional major subject of Dr. Scheibner’s research includes
            immunological and other non-accidential injuries in babies who suffered
            medication (antibiotics and pain killers) and/or birth injuries. She has
            documented the damage (including death) by case examples of identical
            non-accidental injuries as a result of iatrogenic (physician caused) immune or
            other disorders as described in medical literature.

            Employment

            1958-1961: Lecturer at the Department of Geology and Palaeontology of Jan
            Amos Comenius University, Bratislava. Lectured in Biology and Micropalaeontology

            1962-1967: Senior Lecturer at the Department of Geology and Palaeontology of
            Jan Amos Comenius University, Bratislava

            1967-1968: Docent (equivalent to Senior Associate Professor) at the
            Department of Geology and Palaentology of Jan Amos Comenius University,
            Bratislava

            1968-1987: Micropalaeontologist by the Geological Survey of New South Wales,
            Dept. of Mines (later, Dept. of Mineral Resources)

            1971-1973: Research Scientist (Department of Mineral Resources)

            1973-1976: Senior Research Scientist (Dept. of Mineral Resources)

            1976-1978: Principal Research Scientist1, category I

            1978-1981: Principal Research Scientist1, category II

            1981-1987: Principal Research Scientist1, category III

            1987: Retired from the Department of Mineral Resources

            1Note: The pre-requisite for these appointments required “Demon-stration of a
            considerable world standing in one’s research speacialty.”

            Research Interests

            1958 First scientific paper in
            Micropalaeontology of the Cretaccous Sequences of the Carpathian Klippen Belt in
            Slovakia published while a student at the Jan Amos Comenius University in
            Bratislava

            1958 to 1968 Published 35 scientific papers (and one monograph) dealing
            with the Cretaceous and Jurassic Foraminifera of the Carpathian Klippen Belt in
            Slovakia

            1968 to 1987 Studied Cretaceous and Permian Foraminifera of the Great
            Australian Basin in New South Wales, and South Australian and the Carnarvon
            Basins in Western Australia; South Africa and the Indian Peninsula, and Permian
            Foramin­ifera of the Sydney Basin

            1972 to 1976 Invited to participate in the highly prestigious Deep Sea
            Drilling Project (DSDP) conducted under the auspices of the Scripps Institution
            of Oceanography (U.S.A.), in the Atlantic and Indian Oceans; results of these
            studies are published in the Initial Reports of the DSDP; invited to write a
            Synopsis of Cretaceous Foraminifera of the Indian Ocean, published in amonograph
            entitled, Synopsis of the DSDP in the Indian Ocean

            1993 Book published entitled, “Vaccination” (296 pp) based
            on an extensive study of vaccination issues as published in refereed medical
            journals; book has been published in German by Hirthammer Verlag, Dutch by
            Lemniscast Publishers, and Finnish by Kustantaja Lasse Vajaranta

            1994 Produced a 2-hour video of lecture on the dangers and
            ineffectiveness of vaccination.

            1994 Lectured for students of chiropractic at a number of
            chiropractic colleges in the U.S.A.

            1995 Invited and accepted as an expert on vaccination and
            cot death by the College of Physicians Montreal, Canada; Dec. 11, 1995 gave
            evidence on the subject Vaccination and Cot Death before the Disciplinary
            Committee of the College of Physicians in Montreal, Canada as an expert for Dr.
            Guillaine Lanctot.

            1996 to present Provided expert reports for court cases of vaccine
            injuries/deaths; prepared 90 reports for Shaken Baby Syndrome (SBS) cases and/or
            vaccine injury compensation cases in the U.S., U.K. Germany, Iceland, Sweden,
            and Australia.

            1996 Invited to deliver luncheon talk on dangers and
            ineffec-tiveness of vaccination to the medical staff of the Research Hospital in
            Kansas City, MO.

            1997 Delivered lecture entitled, Vaccination, yes or no?
            at sem­inar organized by a professional organization of Dutch medical doctors in
            Utrecht, Holland.

            1996 to 1997 Several lectures at Chiropractic Colleges in the U.S.

            1996 Participated in the Maroochydore (Queensland,
            Australia) hearing of the Equal Opportunity and Anti-discrimination Commission
            as an expert on the dangers and ineffectiveness of vaccination, and the link
            between vaccination and cot death.

            1997 Delivered lecture entitled, Vaccination, yes or no?
            at sem­inar organized by a professional organization of Dutch medical doctors in
            Utrecht, Holland.

            1996 to 1997 Several lectures at Chiropractic Colleges in the U.S.

            1996 Participated in the Maroochydore (Queensland,
            Australia) hearing of the Equal Opportunity and Anti-discrimination Commission
            as an expert on the dangers and ineffectiveness of vacci nation, and the link
            between vaccination and cot death.

            1997 Invited by the Faculty of Nursing, Sydney University
            to present lecture on The Dangers of Vaccination

            1997 Participated at a public debate on vaccination at
            Sydney University in Sydney, Australia.

            1997 to 1998 Invited to participate in the Training Program of the
            Royal Australian College of General Practitioners (RACOP), Sydney, New South
            Wales, as one of two expert panelists in debates on whether immunization should
            or should not be mandatory, presenting the case against vaccination based on the
            study of published orthodox medical research.

            1998 Invited to address the Medical (MBOG) Congress in
            Utrecht, Holland on the Effect of Vaccination on the Immune System

            1998 Invited to participate in a debate on vaccination
            convened by the organization WDDTY (What Doctors Don’t Tell You) in Londing,
            U.K.

            Oren J, Kelly D, Shannon DC (Apr
            1986). “Identification
            of a high-risk group for sudden infant death syndrome among infants who
            were resuscitated for sleep apnea.”. “Pediatrics” 77
            (4): 495-9.

            PMID 3960618.

            Kelly DH, Golub H, Carley D, Shannon
            DC (Aug 1986). “Pneumograms
            in infants who subsequently died of sudden infant death syndrome.”.
            “J Pediatr.” 109 (2): 2499-54.

            PMID 3755468.

            Scheibner V (Dec 2004). “”Dynamics
            of Critical Days as Part of the Dynamics of Non-specific Stress Syndrome
            Discovered During Monitoring with Cotwatch Breathing Monitor””.
            “Journal of the Australasian College of Nutritional and Environmental
            Medicine” 23 (3): 10-14.

            Scheibner V (May 27-29 1990-91).
            “”Evidence of the association between non-specific stress syndrome, DPT
            injections, and cot death.” The Old and the New. Proceedings of
            the Second National Immunisation Conference. Canberra, Public Health
            Association of Australia” 1.

            Scheibner V (April 1999). ““Vaccinations:
            Part I – Medical Research On Sids And Epidemics””. “Consumer
            Health” – Consumer Health Organization of Canada 22 (4).

            Scheibner V (May 27-29 1990-91).
            “”Evidence of the association between non-specific stress syndrome, DPT
            injections, and cot death.” The Old and the New. Proceedings of
            the Second National Immunisation Conference. Canberra, Public Health
            Association of Australia” 1.

            Scheibner V (1993).
            Vaccination: 100 years of orthodox research shows that vaccines
            represent an assault on the immune system. Australian Print Group.

            ISBN 0-646-15124-X.

            Scheibner V (1993).
            Vaccination: 100 years of orthodox research shows that vaccines
            represent an assault on the immune system. Australian Print Group.

            ISBN 0-646-15124-X.

            Scheibner V (1993).
            Vaccination: 100 years of orthodox research shows that vaccines
            represent an assault on the immune system. Australian Print Group.

            ISBN 0-646-15124-X.

            Scheibner V (2000).
            “Behavioural Problems in Childhood.
            ISBN 0-9578007-0-3.

            Scheibner V (Aug 2001). “”Shaken
            Baby Syndrome Diagnosis on Shaky Ground.”” (PDF). ‘Journal of the
            Australasian College of Nutritional and Environmental Medicine’
            20 (2): 5-8,15.

          • shay simmons

            She’s a paleontologist with no background in pediatrics or neurology. She also thinks sick kids are a good idea, which makes her not only a fool but a sadist.

            Kind of like you.

          • Ron Roy

            Did you miss this?;In 1953, Viera Scheibner studied medicine at the Medical Faculty (school) of
            the Czechoslovak state-run Jan Masaryk University in Brno, before
            And your qualifications would be?…… Oh you work for the Red Cross and you’re a retired marine. Oh I see. Yeah I’ll believe you over her. WHEN PIGS FLY.

          • shay simmons

            Did you miss this? Viera Scheibner never qualified in medicine — anywhere. AND, you helped prove that she lied about a reference in an article she wrote on Whale.

            Hey, everybody! Don’t forget to go to Whale, where you can read lots and lots of other falsehoods!

          • Ron Roy

            How many times do I have to tell you it’s WHALE / VACCINE? Now get it right. And why should anyone believe you? Oh I see you’re a retired marine and you work for the Red Cross. Ok sure now roll over and go back to sleep.

          • shay simmons

            Yes, Vera’s lie was on WHALE/VACCINE. You ought to remember, Ron…you helped prove it was a lie.

          • Ron Roy

            That’s Viera not Vera. You outdid yourself in that rebuttal on Viera’s work. It was less than good but for you that’s a plus. And again I have to ask. And your qualifications are…… Oh same answer you work for the Red Cross and you’re a retired marine. Oh ok.

          • shay simmons

            Thanks for pointing out that I mis-typed her name. We notice you aren’t commenting on her mis-use of a cite in her research.

          • Ron Roy

            Lie what lie?

          • shay simmons
          • shay simmons

            Upvote envy. How sad.

          • JoeFarmer

            That’s not the only envy he suffers from…

          • Ron Roy

            No I’m just amazed as to the loyalty among medical criminals. The Italian / Sicilian mob would be envious.

          • shay simmons

            Unlike Ron, who wouldn’t dream of being loyal to a source once she had been proven to be a liar. Oh, wait….

          • Jonathan Graham

            the New England Journal of Medicine published in 1984 that tetanus booster injections

            However a search on New England journal of Medicine shows only two articles which contain AIDS, Tetanus and T8. One is about increasing the immune system and the other is a case study of a Trinidadian woman with Interstitial Pulmonary Disease, Hypercalcemia, and Lymphocytosis. So neither actually fit what this article says.

            Why would anyone use a source like WHALE if the authors can’t even cite correctly?

          • Ron Roy

            Why Whale? Because it’s a better source of truth than that provided by the MEDICAL MAFIA:
            ”Medical politics, for example, is a cutthroat power game of
            the most primitive sort. I much prefer political politics, because there you
            have the art of the possible, which means you have to compromise. Medical
            politics is the art of sheer power. There is no compromise: you go right for the
            jugular vein before your own is torn out. There’s no room for compromise because
            churches never compromise on canon law. Instead of a relatively open process in
            which people with different interests get together to try to get the most out of
            the situation that they can, in medical politics there is a rigid authoritarian
            power structure which can be moved only through winner-take-all power plays.
            Historically, doctors who have dared to change things significantly have been
            ostracized and have had to sacrifice their careers in order to hold to their
            ideas. Few doctors are willing to do either.

            When I was Senior Pediatric Consultant to the Department of Mental Health in
            Illinois, I cut out a certain kind of operation that was being performed on
            mongoloid children with heart defects. The stated purpose of the operation was
            to improve oxygen supply to the brain. The real purpose, of course, was to
            improve the state’s residency programs in cardiovascular surgery, because
            nothing beneficial happened to the brains of mongoloid children—and the surgeons
            knew that. The whole idea was absurd. And deadly, since the operation had a
            fairly high mortality rate. Naturally, the university people were very upset
            when I cut out the operation. They couldn’t figure out a better use for the
            mongoloid children, and, besides, it was important to train people.In prepaid
            group practices where surgeons are paid a steady salary not tied to how many
            operations they perform, hysterectomies and tonsillectomies occur only about
            one-third as often as in fee-for-service situations.”
            Ritual Mutilations by Robert S. Mendelsohn, M.D.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Because it’s a better source of truth than

            But how would you know? If it constantly makes references that are either made up or wrong. Are you saying it doesn’t matter if the science these people claim they are basing their statements on simply is non-existent?

          • Ron Roy

            Wrong. Go to WHALE / VACCINE folks check out what these vaccine promoters are afraid of. Again it’s WHALE / VACCINE.

          • Jonathan Graham

            I asked you a question to which “wrong” is not a cogent reply.

            So again, I ask the question. Does it or does it not matter if the science these people (in whale articles) claim they are basing their statements on is simply non-existent? Yes? No? Are you saying you don’t know? You don’t care?

          • shay simmons

            Why Whale? Because it’s a better source of truth

            Thus speaketh the guy who just proved that Whale made up a citation.

          • Ron Roy

            I see you avoided commenting on the fact that the vaccine cannot possibly protect anyone from getting tetanus. Here’s a little more info for you to try and dispute:

            ”I had been taught that during the second world war, no soldiers had suffered
            from tetanus because they were fully vaccinated. Later, I met doctors who had
            cared for soldiers during the war, who told me a completely different story.
            Fully vaccinated soldiers had indeed, got tetanus, but they were told not to
            report it. In other words, what I was taught and what was true were two
            different things.”

            MY BRUSH WITH TETANUS Dr Archie Kalokerinos

            “How can the Tetanus vaccine induce immunity, when contracting the disease
            naturally does not give immunity?”–NVIC

            “A tetanus vaccination cannot possibly
            protect from the disease since the human organism cannot build up any immunity
            after contracting the disease (as is the same after HIB, diphtheria or TB). So,
            if nature hasn’t planned the immunity, how does the vaccine work? Furthermore, the tetanus vaccination (as
            is the case with the diphtheria vaccine) is a so-called toxoid vaccine. The
            killed poison of the tetanus bacilli is injected into the body and meant to
            protect us. But the human body cannot build up immunity against poisons31.
            How can the vaccine protect us then? The official statistics of the various
            countries show us that the vaccine does not protect us. The Robert Koch
            Institute in Germany admits that 2/3 people who contract tetanus have been fully
            vaccinated32. The rate in Switzerland was 50% fully vaccinated and
            still contracted the disease.”—Anita Petek-Dimmer

            How to make an easy dollar:”If your immunisation income is below the national average, offer
            tetanus boosters for adults who have not received one in the preceding 10 years. Also pick
            up those who have never had a primary course. You could do this opportunistically during
            consultations or by recall from the computer. Check on immunisation status at new patient
            checks. With tetanus (as well as typhoid and infectious hepatitis), you can generate
            income from reimbursement for personally administered vaccine under paragraph 44.5 of the
            Red Book. “—Financial Pulse

          • Jonathan Graham

            I see you avoided commenting on the fact that the vaccine cannot possibly protect anyone from getting tetanus.

            All there was was someone claiming – without any references at all – that half who got tetanus were vaccinated. Even if true doesn’t say anything about the effectiveness of the vaccine. Math for trades Ron (and Viera).

            So again I ask you. The study Viera references doesn’t exist. Does this matter or not to you? Does it matter if any of the alleged sources people in whale articles reference exist or not?

          • Ron Roy

            Look a little harder. I can post much more info if what I already posted didn’t sink in. What’s that you say? Oh your employers would fire you if you ever admitted the truth. Oh ok. Back to your calculator Johnny.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Should I assume that your constant avoiding of the question: “Does it matter if any of these people on whale are referencing studies that actually exist?”. Means your answer is: “no”?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Johnny Hamster is a septic vaccine believer memebot. He will stick to you like the brown stuff, it’s his job. Best wipe him on a brick somewhere and walk away. Ever got stuck with a Moonie or Hari K, no different. His bible is a shitee book.

          • AutismDadd

            So people vaccinated for tetanus get tetanus and it says nothing about the effectiveness of the vaccine? Buh Wah Ha Ha. Who’s the tet anus now?

          • Jonathan Graham

            So people vaccinated for tetanus get tetanus and it says nothing about the effectiveness of the vaccine?

            Sure the vaccine could be either highly effective or entirely ineffective based on that same figure that half of the people who got tetanus were vaccinated. Any data which is congruent with two mutually exclusive positions provides little or no information on that axis. This is hypothesis testing 101.

          • Ron Roy

            If the disease itself doesn’t confer any immunity how can the vaccine possibly work?

          • Jonathan Graham

            Because unlike other diseases the bacterium isn’t the primary problem with tetanus. It’s the toxin it produces. By the time your body – immunized or not – mounts an immune response you have enough toxin to be potentially fatal. Which is why we vaccinate against the toxoid not the bacterium. So when you encounter the bacterium again you can’t get sick.

          • Ron Roy

            So why aren’t people who SURVIVE tetanus not protected from subsequent bouts of tetanus. They should have developed an immunity to the toxoid.

          • Jonathan Graham

            They develop antibodies it’s just not enough to mount an immune response. The problem is that the toxin (hey for once we’re talking about an actual toxin in actually toxic doses!) is just too strong.

          • AutismDadd

            Pharma can convince many their products work when they don’t

          • AutismDadd

            Thanks for confirming vaccines are not working for 50% or worse.

          • 655321

            They are attacking Texas guess they’ve had it with their wealthy Dallas suburbs opting out. Saw the usual propaganda stories aimed at Texas on NPR and a few others, how do people miss this?

          • AutismDadd

            Blind Faith Syndrome or just Willfully Blind

          • Ron Roy

            Johnny jsut because YOU can’t find something doesn’t mean it doesn’t exists. Well maybe for one thing…. Your conscience.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Can you answer the question if it matters to your position if this article exists or not?

          • Mike Stevens

            “I see you avoided commenting on the fact that the vaccine cannot possibly protect anyone from getting tetanus.”

            Its a toxoid vaccine, Ron.
            You do know what one of those is, I hope?

          • Ron Roy

            So your saying anyone who gets tetanus is not exposed to the toxoid causing tetanus? And if they are then why aren’t they immune from getting tetanus in the future?

          • Mike Stevens

            You mean “toxin”, not “toxoid”. They are different, that is the point.
            There is no natural immunity generated to the tetanus exotoxins, so science has tweaked the toxin to produce a “toxoid” (Literally “toxin-like”). This is recognised by the immune system, and provokes a protective antibody response, creating antibodies capable of neutralising the real toxin if that comes along.
            Ain’t science wonderful?
            (Not that you’d know)

          • Ron Roy

            bs

          • shay simmons

            I see you avoided commenting on the fact that your citation is bogus.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            yeah 1984 Johnny 1984. I am sure your smile might be more than piles.

          • Mike Stevens

            “Perhaps the most interesting thing about tetanus is that those who get it do not develop immunity to it”

            At least this one claim of yours is correct for a change.
            Natural tetanus does not induce immunity. So that’s why people need vaccination.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Uh wrong Mike, poor blood supply to damage area is a prerequisite for full blown tetanus, it has nothing to do with lackovaccinia. When did you fall that that vaccine meme fallacy Mikey Moose.

          • Ron Roy

            I see the disease itself doesn’t confer immunity but the vaccine does? A stupid statement like that got you 7 upvotes, WOW! You soldiers stick together don’t you.

          • Mike Stevens

            Well the vaccine is a toxoid vaccine*, Ron.
            Looks like the stupid one is YOU!

            *I’ll let you Google it, and see if you can work out why this matters for yourself. I’ve done more than enough spoon feeding this week for ignorant antivaxers.

          • AutismDadd

            Plus the boot licking at your Pharma job, you must be exhausted.

          • shay simmons

            I actually had a gentleman tell me in 2009 that the H1N1 flu vaccine contained microchips so the Obama administration could find us to put us in FEMA camps.

          • JoeFarmer

            Heh, they don’t need microchips, the black helicopters and drones can pick up the mercury!

          • shay simmons

            I thought it was the aluminum that made them all shiny?

            Geez, I can’t keep up with the conspiracies.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hey Sahhg, you heard the ‘vaccines saves lives’ conspiracy, apparently if you don’t get jabbed, ya mum loses her job and you can’t use a swimming pool.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Apparently Paul Offit is so up himself with vaccine fallacy defense he has even written articles on alumimum being essential for life. Guess you been chewing that gum wrapper to often, how much do you charge, do you take it anyway?

          • AutismDadd

            As if you can keep up at all shaynus

          • AutismDadd

            You log on to post that?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            He is a farmer, he is paid to puuke propaganda about how good processed food is.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            hey Joe, you still feeding toxic meat to fat people and getting away with it? Someone has to keep the obesity and diabetes epidemic going for the medics to keep prescribing, good on ya.

          • JoeFarmer

            User blocked. Good riddance.

          • AutismDadd

            JoePharmer trounced by Trojan

          • AutismDadd

            Yawn…stooge alert!

          • JoeFarmer

            User AutismDadd blocked.

            Good riddance to bad garbage.

          • FallsAngel

            You won’t regret it. I don’t.

          • JoeFarmer

            I try to give people the benefit of the doubt, but ADudd acts like an attention-starved 7 year-old that just chugged a quart of Kool Aid.

          • AutismDadd

            Need a tissue? JoePharmer….trounced

          • AutismDadd

            Because I trounced you and your weak attempts to deny vaccine damage.

          • AutismDadd

            You must have chicken pox bee yuk buk buk

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            LOL. keep up the good work, at some point the few septics left will shyte it and run when the investegation starts. Maybe there will be a trial near us we can go throw rotton fruit at

          • 655321

            Joepharma

          • AutismDadd

            I like JoePharmer since I coined it.

          • 655321

            Ha, was that you?

          • AutismDadd

            Sure was.

          • 655321
          • Damo

            Are you that attention starved that you would pretend to “coin” an isnult that doesn’t make any sense?

            I feel bad for your pretend kid.

          • AutismDadd

            Here’s a pretend yawn

          • Damo

            I take that as a yes.

          • AutismDadd

            Wow that’s dumb. Its a yawn.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            hey it’s joe the farmer, the guy that is behind the obesity epidemic in the US. Now they are all on oxycodeine to cope with the arthritiis your pseudo food gives them.
            How does it feel to be doing that to people? Did you get your flu shot like a good boy?

          • Damo

            I have been satirically saying that about the flu shot for years. Never thought anyone took me seriously.

          • shay simmons

            Never underestimate the CQ of the average anti-vaxxer.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            My CQ 10 is way more than your CO2 Sahaag. So when did you vaccine fallacy belief conspiracy start then?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Flu vaccine woo is one of the most up there cons out there.

          • Damo

            I agree that the flu vaccine– due to the flu itself quickly mutating, is not as effective as we would like. But kind of a stretch to call it a con.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            flu vaccine doesn’t quickly mutate, that is the marketing spin you bought, they have weasel words for everything.

          • Damo

            Weasel words like “marketing spin?”

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hi Dunno, so did you have a flu vaccine this year due to the paranoia fallacy?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hey, Dunno, taking you seriously is like making teapots out of chocolate, are you a medical peer review believer or just an ordinary maroon?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            I am sure you didn’t Shaag. Nice bit of septic smokescreening though

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hey, its Shaggy simmons, did you run from the septic raptor then because he had to redesign his site to keep it all squeaky? How much do you charge, by the hour or by the pull

          • Ron Roy

            Whale Vaccine folks. See what these shills are afraid off.

          • ANB2015

            That is not the dumbest thing I’ve ever read on the internet, but it comes close.

          • Verboten

            How many major inventors, thinkers, whistle-blowers, eye-witnesses, and victims have been mocked throughout the ages? You live in a boring and dangerous world where pundits dictate your reality.

          • Damo

            Millions upon millions. How many of them were correct–a few. We just don’t remember all the ones that got it wrong.

          • AutismDadd

            Lame. You have no clue so shut the pie hole.

          • Verboten

            That part doesn’t matter. One can (or should be able to) easily determine the validity of someone’s claims. People like you have no sense of this and await the word from pundits. These same pundits that did not watch the Wright brothers take flight and instead were printing headlines talking about the hoax of flight. Wise up or stay in the dark, your choice.

          • Damo

            What pundits are you talking about? I was just pointing out that people have crazy ideas all the time, doesn’t make them right, just because they are outside of the box.

          • AutismDadd

            And the other was you? Correct me if I’m right.

          • AutismDadd
          • Verboten

            US Government shows history of forced sterilization:
            http://inamerica.blogs.cnn.com/2012/01/10/north-carolina-to-decide-how-much-to-compensate-victims-of-forced-sterilization/

            Supreme Court determines you cannot sue for injuries from vaccines:
            http://blogs.discovermagazine.com/80beats/2011/02/23/supreme-court-no-you-cant-sue-drugmakers-over-vaccine-injury-claims/

            The US Government has a history of lying about what is in vaccines:
            http://world.time.com/2011/07/18/why-the-cias-vaccine-ruse-is-a-setback-for-global-health/

            Vaccines have been used to cause mass sterilizations:
            https://www.lifesitenews.com/news/a-mass-sterilization-exercise-kenyan-doctors-find-anti-fertility-agent-in-u

            Snopes claims Kenyan doctors don’t know what they are talking about because the government says so:
            http://www.snopes.com/medical/disease/tetanus.asp

            So, what we see it that there is more than ample evidence that there is a serious issue with vaccines, yet we are expected to believe they are safe because governments, who continuously lie, say so.

            Keep fighting, brother. The truth will come out.

          • Mike Stevens

            “It doesn’t matter if a person is a lunatic, it matters what they say.”
            OK, he says there are reptilian shape shifters trying to take over the world.
            Happy now?

            PS: I think that matters, and argues to the implausibility of his other pronounced claims.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            What like the septic meme ‘vaccines saves shareholders retirement funds’

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Michael Simpsom over at the septic raptor is one of those

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            That means almost all medical doctors are lunatics then, they always seem to reach for medical peer review to support their fallacies and vaccine memes

          • Verboten

            Yea, you have no idea how science, agenda, and society works. Good for you, please listen to everyone in a labcoat.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hi Verbooti, it would seem that medical ‘science’ is largely based on guesswork and funding bias, nice to see you are touching base with that fallacy.

          • Verboten

            Fallacy? Right, you don’t know what you are talking about.

          • AutismDadd

            FalseAngel speaks with forked tongue

          • Ron Roy

            And FallsAngel, Proponent, Jonathan Graham, shay simmons, Damo etc are all part of the MEDICAL MAFIA. Consider the source.Go to WHALE/ VACCINE and see why they fear that site. Here are a few quotes from an HONEST doctor taken from WHALE:”Bernard Rimland, Ph.D., has provided
            the statistics that, in their experience, from 50 to 60% of parents with autistic children
            believe that their children were damaged by vaccines. In our own office we have seen many
            autistic children in recent years, and our own experience has been very similar, many
            parents reporting that deterioration of their children took place following
            vaccines.”–Dr Buttram MD

            “Soon after my textbook on autism was published in 1964, I began to hear from
            other parents. Many parents told me that
            their children were normal until getting a triple vaccine – the DPT shot. In 1965 I began systematically collecting data on
            the symptoms and possible causes of autism: In
            1967—33 years ago—I began querying the parents, specifically about the
            child’s response to the DPT shot. Many
            had reported marked deterioration.”–Dr Rimland

            “They claim that autism naturally occurs
            at about 18 months, when the MMR is routinely given, so the association is merely
            coincidental and not causal. But the onset of
            autism at 18 months is a recent development. Autism starting at 18 months rose very sharply in
            the mid-1980s, when the MMR vaccine came into wide use.
            A coincidence? Hardly!”–Dr Rimland

          • Jonathan Graham

            Consider the source.

            People like myself who weigh evidence…or people like Ron and the editors of Whale who simply accept whatever they already agree with.

            Go to WHALE/ VACCINE and see why they fear that site.

            Ron, I’ve done my best to promote WHALE. So please stop making up lies.

          • Ron Roy

            Here’s a small sample of what Johnny doesn’t want you to know:Jaquelyn McCandless, M.D [Jaquelyn McCandless, M.D]

            “As a clinician, my current belief which guides my practice with these
            children is that any child given the HepB vaccination at birth and subsequent boosters
            along with DPT has received unacceptable levels of neurotoxin in the form of the ethyl
            mercury in the thimerosal preservative used in the vaccine. In any child with a genetic
            immune susceptibility (probably about one in six) this sets off a series of events that
            injure the brain-gut-immune system. By the time they are ready to receive the MMR
            vaccination, their immune system is so impaired in a great number of these children that
            the triple vaccine cannot be handled by the now dysfunctional immune system and they begin
            their obvious descent into the autistic spectrum disorder.”—Jaquelyn McCandless, M.D

          • Jonathan Graham

            Here’s a small sample of what Johnny doesn’t want you to know

            I want people to know this Ron…

            “As a clinician, my current belief which guides my practice with these
            children is that any child given the HepB vaccination at birth and subsequent boosters
            along with DPT has received unacceptable levels of neurotoxin in the form of the ethyl
            mercury in the thimerosal preservative used in the vaccine. In any child with a genetic
            immune susceptibility (probably about one in six) this sets off a series of events that
            injure the brain-gut-immune system.

            So the question here is how did this doctor determine this? Especially the “genetic immune susceptibility” what sequence is that? How many patients did they have with that? The answer is very likely “too few to actually determine a statistically strong causal relationship”.

            So again, unless you are telling everyone that it doesn’t matter how weak the evidence is, as long as it agrees with you. I don’t see the point of Whale except for humor (or as an example of “how to avoid thinking”).

          • Ron Roy

            The point being Johnny is that clinician has hands on real life experiences whereas YOU have none and you just regurgitate the lies your told to regurgitate in order to promote the bottom line of the MEDICAL MAFIA.

          • Jonathan Graham

            The point being Johnny is that clinician has hands on real life experiences

            Well if you met a clinician who had only had one case ever. Would you consider their opinion similarly definitive?

            Also I’ll point out that they are claiming a condition correlated with a genetic condition. This has nothing to do with clinical experience. Right? No matter how many patients a doc examines they can’t see their genes. Right?

          • Ron Roy

            Over yours? ANY DAY!

          • Jonathan Graham

            I didn’t ask that. You seem to think this MD’s opinion makes the case pretty clearly. Is it the same if they had only examined one or two children in their entire career?

          • Ron Roy

            Here’s some more info on the HepB vaccine for anyone intersected:

            As most readers of AoA know, the Hep B vaccine was added to the CDC’s
            childhood immunization schedule in the early 1990s, requires four doses before a
            child is eighteen months old, and is the only vaccine on the CDC’s schedule that
            is recommended to be given on an infant’s first day of life.

            What else do we know about this vaccine? Quite a bit, actually. In no particular
            order:

            1) A recent study published in the journal Neurotoxicology called “Delayed
            Acquisition of Neonatal Reflexes in Newborn Primates Receiving a
            Thimerosal-containing Hepatitis B Vaccine: Influence of Gestational Age and
            Birth Weight” found that monkeys who received a Hepatitis B vaccine on the first
            day of life experienced a significant delay in survival reflexes versus monkeys
            who received a placebo.

            2) A recent study published in the journal the Annals of Epidemiology titled
            “Hepatitis B Vaccination of Male Neonates and Autism” found that “Boys who
            received the hepatitis B vaccine during the first month of life had 2.94 greater
            odds for ASD [autism] compared to later- or unvaccinated boys.”

            3) A recent study published in the journal Neurology called “Hepatitis B vaccine
            and the risk of CNS inflammatory demyelination in childhood” found that the
            Engerix B vaccine for Hep B (the one my son received) appears to increase the
            risk of central nervous system inflammatory demyelination.

            4) A recent study published in Toxicological and Environmental Chemistry titled
            “Hepatitis B triple series vaccine and developmental disability in US children
            aged 1-9 years” stated “the odds of receiving EIS [special education services]
            were approximately nine times as great for vaccinated boys as for unvaccinated
            boys after adjustment for confounders. This study found statistically
            significant evidence to suggest that boys in United States who were vaccinated
            with the triple series Hepatitis B vaccine, during the time period in which
            vaccines were manufactured with thimerosal, were more susceptible to
            developmental disability than were unvaccinated boys.”

            5) In 2002, the Institute of Medicine (which I personally believe is a corrupt
            agent of the vaccine industry but many believe is the final word on medical
            issues) published a study titled, “Immunization Safety Review: Hepatitis B
            Vaccine and Demyelinating Neurological Disorders” in which they reached the
            following non-conclusion: “Additionally, the committee found that the
            epidemiological evidence favors rejection of a causal relationship between the
            hepatitis B vaccine in adults and multiple sclerosis. However, the evidence was
            inadequate to accept or reject a causal relationship between the hepatitis B
            vaccine and all other demyelinating conditions.” (Author’s note: If you’re a
            vaccine, and you can’t get an “all clear” from the vaccine-loving IOM, you’re in
            big trouble.”)

            6) Generation Rescue analyzed the vaccine schedules of 30 first-world countries.
            60%, or 18 countries, have Hep B vaccine on their schedule. That means 12
            countries, or 40% of the countries, DO NOT require the Hep B vaccine, despite
            the fact that it has been readily available for 19 years. Of countries that do
            require Hep B vaccine, we could only find a few Eastern European countries like
            Bulgaria and Latvia who also give the shot to babies on the first day of life.
            Many other countries appear to pursue a more balanced approach to Hep B vaccine,
            here are some direct quotes from country vaccination schedules.

            Italy: “Hepatitis B vaccine is administered at birth only to children
            born to HBsAg + mothers. Otherwise immunisation starts at 3 months of age.”

            Finland: “Hepatitis B vaccine is given only to infants of HbsAg

            carrier mothers or fathers at the age of 0, 1, 2 and 12 months.”

            Denmark: “Vaccination against hepatitis B is recommended to children of
            HBsAg-positive mothers starting at birth with both hepatitis B
            immunoglobulin and one dose of HepB.”

            Norway: “HepB is recommended for risk groups only.”

            Sweden: “HepB is only recommended to children considered high-risk
            groups. Vaccination is given at birth to infants of mothers positive for
            hepatitis B.”

            The Netherlands: “Only for children born to HBsAg positive mothers.”

            The Hepatitis B vaccine addition to the U.S. vaccination schedule for children
            is a wildly destructive disaster for seemingly little benefit to public health.
            The science proving what a disaster it is will keep coming.

            I’d like to wrap this piece up with two remarkable statements from a very
            courageous father, Michael Belkin, who
            lost his infant daughter to a Hepatitis B vaccine. And, it’s not only this dad’s
            command of the facts that makes his statements remarkable, it’s also because
            these statements were delivered in public, to both the Advisory Committee on
            Immunization Practices, the very group that added Hep B to our schedule, and the
            U.S. Congress, TEN YEARS AGO:

          • JGC

            “Delayed acquisition of neonatal reflexes in newborn primates receiving a thimerosal-containing Hepatitis B vaccine: Influence of
            gestational age and birth weight”

            The Hewitson article you cited was published in 2009—I don’t think I’d characterize that as ‘recent’.

            And were you really unaware that it had also been withdrawn in 2009 by the editor? You can find a detailed discussion of why the study fails to have supported the author’s conclusions at

            http://justthevax.blogspot.com/2009/10/20-monkeys.html

            ‘Hepatitis B Vaccination of Male Neonates and Autism” was
            published in 2010 (at least it’s a year more recent than your first citation).

            You can find a discussion of why it fails to credibly support the authors’ conclusions at

            http://lizditz.typepad.com/i_speak_of_dreams/2012/07/1-hepatitis-b-vaccination-of-male-neonates-and-autism-diagnosis-nhis-1997-2002-2010.html

            The 3rd ‘recent’ study cited was published in 2008 and the conclusion of the study is not quite as you stated–here’s the conclusion in full:

            “Hepatitis B vaccination does not generally increase the risk of CNS inflammatory demyelination in childhood. However, the Engerix B
            vaccine appears to increase this risk, particularly for confirmed multiple sclerosis, in the longer term. Our results require confirmation in future studies.”

            Those future studies have been conducted and rather than
            confirm the finding it established that hep b vaccination does not cause or worsen MS (see
            http://www.cdc.gov/vaccinesafety/concerns/history/hepb-faqs.html)

            The fourth ‘recent ‘ study was published in 2008 and does not demonstrate that hepatitis b vaccine is causally associated with ASD’s (the authors readout wasn’t a function of being diagnosed with an ASD but receiving non-specified special education services.
            Since 2008 more recent studies have rebutted the possibility of a causal association between hep b vacination and ASD’s (for example, “No Differences in Early Immunization Rates Among Children with Typical Development and Autism Spectrum Disorders”, presented at the 2013 IMFAR meeting by Dr. Kathleen
            Angkustsiri which found that ASD subjects had a lower uptake of Hep B vaccines than subjects exhibiting typical development).

            Your fifth cite points to evidence rebutting the existence of a causal association, and your 6th doesn’t address the possibility of a
            causal association in any way.

          • JGC

            “Hands on real life experiences” is no substitute for well designed clinical trials, and in fact has proven to be an insufficient foundation for evaluating the success of clinical treatment throughout history (recall it was exactly this kind of ‘evidence’ that caused the practice of bloodletting to continue well into the 20th century).

          • Ron Roy

            Clinical trials? Oh yes those trials that a rigged to give outcomes that always show results that are favorable to the drugs / vaccines produced by the CRIME FAMILIES. Yeah great sources.

          • shay simmons

            And does McCandless have documentation to back up her belief?

          • JGC

            Of course not–recall she’s espousing an article of faith (“As a clinician, my current belief…”). She was a proponent of heavy metal chelation as a treatment for autism, despite the fact that 1) there is no evidence autism is caused by heavy metal accumulation 2) there is no evidence chelation is effective as a treatment for autism and 3) at least one child has died as the result of being treated for autism with chelation.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Hmm if the DPT was at fault then there should be a sharp decline in autism when we switched to the DTaP. Is that the case?

            There should be other things too but….

          • AutismDadd

            Rimland wasn’t lying, he was suggesting. But we know lying is an important part of your argument.

          • Jonathan Graham

            So he was ignorant? He appears to be stating that this is what modern medicine claims.

          • AutismDadd

            Rimland was an early Vaccine Safety Advocate, so it no surprise you don’t know him. He was a caring parent, which you know little about. His son was vaccine damaged. As an individual he achieved more that many and if the Father of the Anti-vaccine Movement wasn’t such an idiotic label, Rimland would be that Father.

          • Jonathan Graham

            I’m saying that he said something which was ridiculously wrong. Either he was lying or ignorant.

          • AutismDadd

            No its you who lies as easily as breathing. And Ignorant? Let me count the ways…

          • Jonathan Graham

            Whatever you think of me doesn’t change that he said something which was ridiculously wrong. So either he was lying or ignorant.

          • AutismDadd

            Again with the duh moment. I’m convinced you are an old dog.

          • Jonathan Graham

            In other words it’s obvious that Rimland was either lying or ignorant.

          • AutismDadd

            Wrong again. You’re not very good at this.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Those are the two mutually exclusive and collectively exhaustive options. So, no it’s you who are wrong.

          • Damo

            What Medical Mafia? Am I going to hospitals and asking them for my “protection money?”

            Ron, you get nuttier and nuttier.

          • AutismDadd

            Rimland had an autistic son. Rimland died at least a decade ago.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Evidence we are all part of the medical mafia please, Ron? Evidence it actually exists too but…

          • Ron Roy

            What have you got against pig farmers?

          • FallsAngel

            Not a thing. Being a pig farmer doesn’t qualify one to be an immunization expert.

          • shay simmons

            What have you got against unqualified and tinfoil hat wearing sources? pig farmers

            FTFY

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hey it’s dorit Rubenstein, the doctor that rips foreskins off in the name of science she must run that site.

          • FallsAngel

            ???

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            The septic raptor michael simpson. he is so scared of me that he had to rebuild his site and ban my IPC! I love the fear in the septic camp, no the investegations are coming – see them run

          • Kevin

            Not the dreaded Whale AGAIN,somebody should harpoon that site.

          • Jonathan Graham

            So is that your admission that they don’t cause autism?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hiya Johnny hamster, is that humor or piles in that smile?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Guess its that damn vaccine haemorroid Johnny, they don’t like it up em!

          • JGC

            it would be better if you would simply provide citations to the peer-reviewed Scientific journal articles where the evidence demonstrating the existence of a causal association between vaccines and these other diseases can be found, ron. After all, such journals are the forum in which working scientists present their observations and state/defend the conclusions they derive from them, not crank websites like whale-to.

          • Ron Roy

            Oh yes peer- reviewed scientific journals. You mean those biased journals that are part and parcel of the MEDICAL MAFIA? Yeah great sources. NO THANKS.

          • JGC

            Your evidence demonstrating that peer-reviewed journals uniformly display bias rendering all articles published by them suspect would be what, exactly?

            I mean, you do have some, and your argument does take some form other than “Those peer-reviewed journal editors–we all know what they’re like”–right?

          • Jonathan Graham

            Those journals which are responsible for discovering every real problem with vaccines. Yes. It’s interesting how little your lot contribute to the actual science of finding problems with vaccines. Isn’t it? So those same journals/researchers who are supposedly bought and paid for are doing your job better than you can.

          • Mike Stevens

            “Go to Whale”

            Ron, you just fried my irony meter. And I only just got a new one after you done fried the last one too!

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Hey Mikey moose, you just fried my septic meme maroonometer

          • Ron Roy

            That’s WHALE / VACCINE get it right!

          • Dee

            I’d rather get my medical information from the American Medical Association, not some leftist meme info graphic.

        • AutismDadd

          So 3 that say the same thing. WOW you’ve outdone yourself. Which wasn’t hard to do.

        • Ron Roy

          Vaccines DO cause autism:http://www.whale.to/vaccine/va

          • Laura J

            oh she has been reported for harassment by the way

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Harassment means something more than “disagrees with me.”

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            How about go swing vaccine nerd

          • Tyler

            Ron did you ever stop to think that autism presents during toddler years which just so happens to be when kids are getting vaccines? Correlation does not equal causation. Early identification of autism has dramatically increased due to health questionnaires at pediatrician offices such as the MCHAT which aim to screen for autism. If you screen for a disease you are going to have dramatically higher rates of a disease but it doesn’t equal an increased incidence. Oh and when was the last time you had a friend die from polio or H. Influenza meningitis? Since you are so into statistics why don’t you look up the rates of those disease before and after vaccination.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Nice vaccine meme Tyler, the autism epidemic has nothing to do with better diagnosis, autistic people are easy to spot. If you have to train a doctor to spot it better they must be complete maroons.

          • AutismDadd

            Shill

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Didn’t you miss a t off the end there AD! LOL

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Sorry, vaccine believers use graphs to swerve the correlation spin Tyler, none of them mean anything but PR. When did your vaccine belief fallacy begin?

        • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

          Hey propellant, the study was flawed because the sample size was too small. Anyway, there are literally hundreds of thousands of kids with spectrum disorders that are everywhere a vaccine goes. The vaccine Gestapo will be shyting it when the investigation gets going.

        • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

          Newspaper citation is no different to medical peer review citiation, it is one merry go round of paranoia and income. How does it feel to be a pusher propellant?

      • Brittany Mattia

        “Thousands of parents witnessed their children become autistic after being vaccinated” You call this a valid source? I could also tell you there are MILLIONS of children who did not become autistic after being vaccinated. I could tell you, my family, aunts, uncles, etc did not become autistic from being vaccinated. But I won’t tell you that because anecdotal evidence is not valid. This is based on your experiences rather than hard facts. People like to share stories about things that happened to them, or that they heard about, to make a point.
        You need to look at scientific journals that looked at groups of people being vaccinated vs not vaccinated and you’ll see that there is NO CORRELATION between vaccines and autism. Sorry you don’t believe in the scientific community but rather you will believe BS sources on the internet. Science is the only thing you can trust nowadays because they are the only people who test these things through extensive trials. If you don’t believe in the thousands of studies published, then don’t feed me with your garbage you find on the internet.
        Agreeably, autism is on the rise, but also look at peer review studies and you’ll see what actually links to autism (a variety of things) vaccines NOT being one of them.

      • JGC

        “However there are thousands of parents who witnessed their children become autistic after being vaccinated.”
        Ron, “after” is not synonymous with “because of”.

        • Ron Roy

          I dare you to say that to a parent of a vaccine damaged child. I wish it were possible for you to say that to my daughters face.

          • JGC

            Why would I be hesitant to say this to a parent of a child they believe was damaged by a vaccine they received? “After” isn’t synonymous with “because of”.

            If your daughter posted to this forum I’d ask her the sample question I’ve asked of other parents of children they believe were injured by vaccines: how exactly did she establish that her child’s injury was actually caused by the vaccine they received?

          • AutismDadd

            JGC is an ahole.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            “I dare you to say that to a parent of a vaccine damaged child.” Why? What would be the use of that? “Sorry” would be a better use of our language facilities for that person. However, you and your daughter do not fall into that category.

            Your daughter perhaps is truly mistaken.

            You, however, are entitled to your unsupported opinion. The moment you spread that opinion as a fact, you are a liar. And if you spread it as fact, knowing it’s a lie (which you do, Ron Roy, because you’ve been shown meta-studies from countries with universal healthcare) then you are both a liar and a fraud.

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            When I talk to a parent who thinks their child is vaccine injured, which I have done, I start with how I empathize with their struggles and know that having a child with health issues and/or a disability is difficult. Then, I ask them why they think their child is injured by a vaccine and why they don’t agree with the vast majority of science. I listen/read and go from there. I then wish them well and tell them I hope they someday come to realize vaccines did not cause their child’s health issues.

            It is not ethical to confront a child about her medical diagnosis. However, when she is an adult, she will likely meet others who have been labelled “vaccine injured” and it is likely she will realize science did not support that assumption.

          • Marisa Conover

            When she’s an adult, she will also be able to follow the money and realize any “clinical trials” or “research” is biased based rather than science based and fraught with fraud….https://www.ncbi.nlm.nih.gov/pmc/articles/PMC3700330/

          • Marisa Conover
          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            Why do you think that taints the thousands and thousands of vaccine studies from all over the world?

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            When she is an adult, she will be able to #FollowTheMoney and will understand that there are other countries (thus neatly refuting the CDC trope) and some of them have financial incentives to find problems, not hide them.

            https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/95e25c72c9da10f780a72073158784ca3e4b0bcba989270c90d96945733e575a.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/979a7591fcb9d270e9da429faad9e056962f7a4c458cd8a346b0384bb30b2c13.jpg

          • Marisa Conover

            “Dumb Dumb” posts a meme, lol. Sorry “Dumb Dumb”, the US National Library/National Institutes Of Health proves scientific fraud in clinical trials and research.

          • Ron Roy

            And I refer them to WHALE / VACCINE. And I offer to accompany them to their next doctors visit. I love doing that. It’s so easy to prove how little they know about vaccines.

          • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

            I don’t believe doctors let non family members in appointments, especially when they start arguing factoids from conspiracy websites.

          • Ron Roy

            Follow me.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Aren’t like a significant portion of people here claiming to have vaccine damaged children. Don’t many people here tell them that or similar things every day. Perhaps if you ever get the guts to follow through on your debate challenge (which you mysteriously don’t offer anymore after getting thrashed by me) I’ll have a chance to meet your daughter.

          • Ron Roy

            Johnny I will debate you ANYTIME but the debate WILL be attended by ANYONE wishing to attend and you pay your own expenses.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Then all you have to do is agree to the ground rules for the vote. Something that causes you to scurry away pretty quickly.

          • Ron Roy

            Johnny no ground rules on voting. What are you afraid of? However the debate will be recorded and the news media will be invited.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Johnny no ground rules on voting

            So a single person can cast a thousand votes? Or they can write “This vote is worth a million votes” on their vote? OR….do there need to be rules about voting. Get back to me when your brain starts operating….maybe in 2020?

            What are you afraid of?

            I think it’s pretty easy to see what you’re afraid of. People who know a little math.

            However the debate will be recorded and the news media will be invited.

            Great. I’ll dress up.

          • Ron Roy

            One person one vote. Was that hard Johnny? Do you have any other excuses?

          • Jonathan Graham

            So in other words there are ground rules. I’ve pointed out that someone has to show some tiny faction of an ability at math/statistics/logic. Why would that make the vote less likely to produce a true account of the evidence?

          • Ron Roy

            Johnny unlike you I believe that average person can detect the truth when given evidence. 12 average people sitting on juries have, at times, a persons life in their hands. I don’t see where a college education or any knowledge of law is required. Oh what if we agree if they can use a calculator……Johnny your requirements would mean someone like you couldn’t vote. You barely made it through high school.

          • Jonathan Graham

            You still haven’t answered the question: How would this voting requirement make the results less accurate. I guess you’re scurrying away again. 🙂

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            *plus chemistry.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            No, sorry, Ron Roy. If we don’t get to set ground rules on voting then neither do you.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Neither Jon nor I tried to set ANY ground rules on attendance so what’s your point?

          • Ron Roy

            Mind your own business Dumb Dumb unless you plan on attending. I’d rather you did. It would show the people in attendance that even two vaccine shills can’t prove that vaccine are beneficial.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            We’ll have to have a series of debates in different locales if we don’t want to have any restrictions on who can attend. Sure, I’ll come to the local one.

          • Ron Roy

            Johnny I would have you sign a waiver of some sort before you meet my daughter because I know what she would do and I don’t want to be responsible for her actions. If you get what I mean.

          • Jonathan Graham

            LOL. Sure.

      • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

        You can’t reason with a septic Ron, they sit playing computer games and ordering pizza. They are A class maroons.

      • Brittany Mattia

        Over 90% of children get vaccinated, yet only 1.4% of children receive an autism diagnosis. You realize that early signs of autism SHOW at the toddler age when children start speaking and developing, which is about the same time that children typically receive their vaccines? Correlation does not equal causation!! Look that statement up.

        That WHALE website you keep sending is purely pseudoscience, no facts or quality studies backing it up. Your WHALE website ends in .to!! You realize a .to website means it is a personal website or a blog? You’re basically believing a blog post over studies that examined thousands of children who have been vaccinated and children with autism. Go take your “evidence” to a university, they’d seriously laugh in your face for backing up your argument with WHALE.to.

        Lastly, these studies being conducted that you deem “Medical Mafia” are studies also conducted around the world.
        “Twenty epidemiologic studies have shown that neither thimerosal nor MMR vaccine causes autism. These studies have been performed in several countries by many different investigators who have employed a multitude of epidemiologic and statistical methods. These studies, in concert with the biological implausibility that vaccines overwhelm a child’s immune system, have effectively dismissed the notion that vaccines cause autism. Further studies on the cause or causes of autism should focus on more-promising leads.” http://cid.oxfordjournals.org/content/48/4/456.full

        How many times do they have to repeat these studies? Because of stupid people like you who believe blog posts our tax dollars are wasted to fund research that ALREADY SHOWS NO CORRELATION.

        • Ron Roy

          ”Lastly, these studies being conducted that you deem “Medical Mafia” are studies also conducted around the world;; Which only goes to show the length to which the MEDICAL MAFIA will go to push their health destroying vaccines. .
          ”Go take your “evidence” to a university, they’d seriously laugh in your face for backing up your argument with WHALE.to.” I’ve debated with a few university / college graduates on the topic of vaccines and I buried them. So much for their misseducation.

    • AutismDadd

      Hilarious. What you know exposes you as media fed and medically indoctrinated. You are Borg!

      • Brittany Mattia

        In a article published which reviewed MANY studies on this topic: “The IOM Immunization Safety Review Committee concluded that the evidence is sufficient to reject a causal association between TCVs and autism.” http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1038/sj.clpt.6100407/full

        1. Population studies from Sweden (Gillberg & Heijbel 1998), the UK (Taylor et al. 1999; Farrington et al. 2001; Kaye et al. 2001; Smeeth et al. 2004), Finland (Peltola et al. 1998), the USA (Dale et al. 2001) and Denmark (Madsen et al. 2002) have shown no relationship. Application of the ‘rule of three’ (Eypasch et al. 1995) suggests that if there is any direct relationship between MMR and autism, it could not occur more frequently than 3 cases per 1 million vaccinations. Thus MMR could not be the cause of any ‘epidemic’ of autism.
        2. Observational studies: No increase was seen in visits to British general practitioners by children subsequently diagnosed with autism compared with controls, in periods of 2 and 6 months after MMR vaccination.

        http://onlinelibrary.wiley.com/doi/10.1111/j.1365-2214.2006.00655.x/full

        • AutismDadd

          Who sits on Immunization Review Committees? Oh that right, vaccine proponents

          • Brittany Mattia

            They support vaccines because there is no autism correlation. I am highly critical of the government and media as well but this is not a media issue. These are scientists who dedicate years and years to research which has to go through the IRB to review the studies. Any fraud in a study is ripped up and the researcher is stripped of their credentials. This is something taken very seriously in the scientific community.
            Stop trying to find someone to blame for your autistic child. Your poor child has to grow up with an brainwashed father! Instead you believe in WHALE (a blog post) which is nothing but pseudoscience. If over 90% of children get the measles vaccine, why are only about 1% diagnosed with autism? Why are children who aren’t vaccinated diagnosed with autism? I did ABA Therapy for autistic children for years. I’ve seen young moms asking me what they’ve done wrong, they thought they did the “right” thing by not vaccinating their child, surprised to see their child still ended up with autism. I’ve seen children who haven’t gotten vaccinated who are severely autistic and even nonverbal.
            Take your blog post to any university or researcher and they will laugh in your face! I can assure you your child would of been autistic without the vaccination but somehow you’d still find a reason to blame the government.

            Take your autistic child to

      • suz norkan

        Yeah! Puppet, parrot sheep and borg! 😉

    • AutismDadd

      The issue isn’t what vaccines claimed to have done, its vaccine injury. Explain why 19 countries have injury compensation plans for these nonexistent injuries.

    • ibid.

      I think you’re overreacting a lil bit. Vaccines DO NOT cause autism; that part is true. Trump saying they might is a ridiculous thing to say. This is one of those things where as soon as he’s pressed on it, he’ll change his tune. Watch.

      • Ron Roy
        • Dee

          Do you have a source from a medical journal and not a leftist infographic?

          • Ron Roy

            Go above and read ( you can read can’t you? ) what I posted a couple days ago. Keep up with the program Dee.

          • Dee

            Yeah, your leftist info graphic. Not worth wasting my time looking for your “source”, although chances are I’ll find it under a tin foil hat.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            It isn’t left or right wing to point out that vaccine ‘evidence’ is marketing PR. When did your vaccine belief fallacy start then Dee?

          • Dee

            No fallacy. I’m fully vaccinated and not a sign of autism.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Kind of explains your narcissist stupidity belief system, thanks for sharing your stupid with us.

            What peer review did you chose for your vaccine fallacy then, the Beano.

          • Dee

            When you stoop to kindergarten name calling, that is when I leave the conversation since no matter how many facts are presented, you will not listen, and since name calling seems to be all you can understand, your screen name should be “My deadbeat father forgot to use a Trojan and now I’m here”. Unvaccinated brain damaged swine.

          • Ron Roy

            Had me fooled.

          • Ron Roy

            How could my source be under your hat?

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            Dee, medical journals publish mostly paid for PR. When did you start to have this fantasy that publication in a medical peer reviewed journal was anything more?

          • Dee

            You are delusional, must be from those diseases your unvaccinated self has.

          • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

            I think believing in medical peer review as evidence is pretty delusional considering the editors of all the top medical peer reviewed journals are saying most of what they publish is nonsense due to funding and selection bias. Kind of explains some of your stupid, but certainly not all of it by a long chalk.

          • Ron Roy

            Speaking of delusional. Have you looked in a mirror lately?

        • Damo

          That link hurts my eyes.

      • AutismDadd

        He’s a wild card and may even get elected a second time. Prepare for him to at least make many of the Vaccine Gestapo nervous. Better stock up on Depends.

      • I’m your huckleberry

        Just one more thing about which Donald J Trump knows nothing.

        • Dave’s Not Here

          I wonder if he also thinks the Earth is flat?

          • AutismDadd

            He’d think your post is flat…flat out dumb

          • Dee

            That’s a concept reserved for liberals

          • RAINBOW SPARKLE

            Are we still funding the EARTH IS ROUND HOAX? It is a plot by China to Keep America Ungreat!

        • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

          Well nonks like Paul Offit think you can give a child 10,000 vaccines and it will be ok! That is the pro vaccine kind of guy.

    • Ron Roy

      Do just a little bit of research and you will see that vaccines have cause a thousand times more harm than good:http://www.whale.to/vaccines.html

    • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

      But vaccines do cause baby damage Brittany, the only ones saying they are safe are the people that make them and pay the politicians to agree. Now the vaccine investigation is coming, there are going to be lots of orders for underpants from the septic community. And far less damaged kids to pay out compensation for. The sugar lobby is the same as the vaccine and tobacco lobby.

      • Brittany Mattia

        You people grew up with the Internet, and you’ve had access to a lot of information, and you don’t know how to tell the good from the bad. It’s extremely sad that you people are picking a bunch of media garbage over people who dedicate their lives to their research.

        What makes you lucky people is that you didn’t grow up seeing kids get paralyzed by polio. I did. You’ve never watched an unvaccinated baby slowly choke to death on its own snot from whooping cough. I have. You’ve never seen the grief of parents who could have prevented their kids from getting sick but chose to trust Jenny McCarthy instead of your doctors. You did not grow up in a time where vaccines were hardly existent, and communicable diseases were killing millions of people (and still is in many parts of the world)

        I can tell you right now that if your baby is going to be autistic, they are going to be autistic whether you vaccinate them or not. The only difference between now and fifty years ago is that kids with autism are diagnosed correctly now. They used to be called ‘mentally retarded’ if they couldn’t speak, but that diagnosis is rare now. If you looked, you’d know that rates of nonverbal autism are going up at the same speed that rates of “Mental Retardation” are going down. And autistic kids who can speak weren’t considered to have a disease until recently. They were called eccentric, or gifted. They were musicians and writers. There is no autism epidemic.

        • AutismDadd

          So you think we believe the media? The media lies to us about vaccines and autism, making them your allies.

    • Trojan notphilliphillneverbeen

      Brittany, that is some fluffy vaccine belief system you got there. So who told you vaccines are not dangerous and useless then?

    • Bob Bob

      Shut up with your “Study your History people” BULLSHIT. I and millions others have dedicated years of research on the topic.. And the FACTS ARE CONCLUSIVE. Vaccines cause more harm then good. THEY ARE GRADE A POISON. All you people pushing for injections have done ZERO independent research. You “intelligentsia” just regurgitate the same LIES that you have heard from the Government and Big Pharma. Maybe it’s just that your special little injections “accidentally” gave you a chemical labotomy and you can no longer think critically? Hmmm.

    • Dad of an Autistic boy

      Wait until you have a child with Autism than we will to again!

      • Brittany Mattia

        I have gotten vaccinated, so have my siblings, parents, cousins, aunts, uncles, etc. I have about 30 little cousins (big family) no one has autism. If one did have autism, I wouldn’t be so stupid to blame it on vaccines, when theres dozens of QUALITY studies out there that show NO LINK between the two!

      • Brittany Mattia

        Sorry your son has autism. I’ve worked with autistic kids before I know the struggle you must have as a parent. You’re blaming the wrong thing though.

    • Ann

      You did not read the article and you are not familiar with the studies PROVING vaccines cause autism, it’s even listed on the package insert along with ALL the other nasty side effects that do occur. Please watch VAXXED and keep reading and doing more research until you find the truth!

    • Ron Roy

      ”Multiple studies, financed or influence by pharmaceutical companies, have been done by researchers and scientists and found no link between the two. Yeah great reliable sources of information.

  • ioneskye

    FYI; Brian is a reptilian hybrid troll. Pay no mind to him. He has no conscience.

    • Brian

      Lol.

      • ioneskye

        Thats not name calling.
        Its a description of your being.
        Purely objective.

        • Brian

          Lurkers take note of anti-vaxxers mindset.

      • acumenata

        Reptilian Hybrid Troll would be a good name for a rock band.

  • Shell

    I can’t stand the guy but if he does do this, it will go a step to making some things right . The same thing happened to my nephew. He was walking and talking and
    after getting the vaccine, he went backwards. We have have healthcare
    workers and doctors tell us the vaccine was the cause. The doctors say the reason it will never 100% be confirmed is they would have to pay out to so many people. We don’t want money only someone to tell us the truth but that seems too much to ask.

    • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

      Numerous cases have been put forth in “vaccine court” to try to prove vaccines cause autism and not one met the burden of proof. Several I have read had evidence presented proving parents missed early warning signs or a genetic disorder was the cause. There is a huge surplus of money in the vaccine injury fund so money is not the issue here. The issue is that a vast number of studies have been done, all over the world, and not one has found al ink between vaccines and autism. Can we stop spending money on this now and spend money instead of real causes and support?

      • AutismDadd

        Tell us the real cause then Kathy. And what support? NVICP denies 60% of claims. What support do those families get?

        • suz norkan

          She is ‘whacked’ on this ‘parents missed the early warning signs’ crap. Is she to dim to realize that many of us have had MORE than one child!

          I think her little blog has gone to her head!

          • AutismDadd

            I’ve trashed and trounced her and she blocked me, but I’m fine with that because I will continue and I won’t have to read her sickening responses.

          • suz norkan

            Damn skippy! More commentary space for US, and without the bad smell, adadd! 😉

      • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
        • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

          I’ve started reading the opinions. They are public record. I have noticed some trends. Sometimes, the claim meets a table injury definition and the plaintiff proves the injury could not have resulted from anything else. Or, the plaintiff tries to prove something not on the table and it either gets dismissed right away of the special master applies all the standards (Althen, etc) to the evidence and usually rules against the plaintiff. Or, cases are dismissed because the documents were incomplete to begin with.

          The ones that take a long time, like Hooker’s, seemed to me to take so long because the plaintiff took a really long time to get evidence organized.

    • Brian

      The unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated, so it’s obvious that vaccines don’t cause it.

      • Ron Roy

        John O’Leary, PhD

        “John O’Leary, PhD, a world-class researcher and molecular biologist from
        Ireland, using state-of-the-art sequencing technology, showed how he had found the measles
        virus in the gut of 96% of autistic children, compared to 6.6% in normal children. This
        virus did not come from the natural disease, but from the measles vaccine. Dr. O’Leary
        found measles virus present in 75% of children with Crohn’s disease. Crohn’s has
        traditionally been an intestinal disease of adults, following years of dietary abuse. Its
        appearance in children is a new event, and Dr. O’Leary’s work points to the measles virus
        from vaccines as the likely cause.”—Tim O’Shea, DC

        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

          Again, that’d show up as some extra vaccinated autistic kids. Where are they?

        • Jonathan Graham

          Nope. He didn’t perform the RT step. There is no way in heck he could have seen measles RNA.

          • Ron Roy

            Johnny you barely made it through high school and you dare criticize a world class researcher? He used state-of-the-art sequencing technology. I’ll take his word over yours any day.

          • Jonathan Graham

            Johnny you barely made it through high school

            I did fine in HS sorry to bust your bubble.

            you dare criticize a world class researcher? He used state-of-the-art sequencing technology.

            He screwed up, it doesn’t matter if the greatest researcher on earth didn’t do the RT step. The results would still be useless. Just like those ones were. Yawn.

    • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

      Here’s the truth:

      The unvaccinated develop autism at the same rate as the vaccinated so it’s obviously a coincidence.

  • Mary Beth Miranda

    I believe that anecdotal evidence of parents cannot be ignored. CDC must continue looking into this. Just because the connection hasn’t been found doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist. This is not my experience with my son, however, who is it that gets the ball rolling on autism research/education/dietary protocols, etc. Parents! Why should they be ignored now?! in the meantime, what DT says is correct, spread them out. Make sure the individual child’s immune system is mature enough for the onslaught, etc.

    • https://vaccinesworkblog.wordpress.com/2016/07/10/a-provaxer-watched-vaxxed/ Kathy

      No one ignores the anecdotal evidence. Every parent who thinks their child’s autism was caused by vaccines has been told by their doctor that there is no evidence to support that conclusion. That idea has been researched for going on 15 years no and no link has been found. Time and time again, it is proven that parents missed early warning signs.

      Maybe what we really need to do is help parents who think everything bad is caused by vaccines understand how science works?

      Also, may I point out that you can spread your child’s vaccines out any way you want. Nothing is stopping you.

      • AutismDadd

        Their doctors are indoctrinated minions who parrot what they’ve been told to parrot.

        • suz norkan

          ‘Nothing is stopping you.’ Duh!

          Except complying to a ‘mandatory’ education for our children and of which our tax dollars PAY for such teaching venue!

          Smells like COERCION to me adadd!

    • Brian

      “Just because the connection hasn’t been found doesn’t mean it doesn’t exist.”

      At this point, after dozens of studies involving millions of children, it does mean it doesn’t exist. While a correlation does not necessarily indicate causation, the lack of correlation does indicate a lack of causation, and no correlation exists.

      • Ron Roy

        Kanner was the
        world’s leading expert in child psychiatry. He was the leader in the field at
        Johns Hopkins. In 1935, he wrote a textbook that was over 500 pages long that
        had detailed, exhaustive descriptions of every possible malady of childhood that
        he and his colleagues had ever seen. There’s not one mention of autism in that
        1935 textbook.

        When he wrote his paper, published
        in 1943, he said, “Since 1938 there have come to our attention a number of
        children whose condition differed so markedly and uniquely from anything seen
        before that each case merits – and I hope will receive – a detailed
        investigation of its fascinating peculiarities.” So here is the world’s leading
        expert on child psychiatry who has already written a textbook. In 1943 he writes
        that in the last five years, we’ve started to see children and they’re unlike
        any children we’ve ever seen before.

        And he only saw 11 of them. And one
        of the things we’ve described is that people came from all over the country, all
        over the world to visit at Hopkins. The notion that autism was around at a rate
        of 1 in 100 or even a fraction of that is absurd. So the genetic argument at
        this point collapses on its face. It doesn’t even meet the basic tests of logic
        and common sense.

        [2010 Sept] Interview
        with Dan Olmsted, Mark Blaxill: ‘Age of Autism-Mercury, Medicine, and a Manmade
        Epidemic’

    • Proponent

      Food for thought..

      “And of course, billions of dollars, money that could have been spent on actually treating and assisting children with ASD, was spent to investigate this claim, with over 100 peer-reviewed papers completely dismissing and debunking any link between any vaccine and any type of autism.

      Let me make this abundantly clear– the vaccines cause autism myth has never been supported by real science even when we looked hard for evidence.”

      (Source(s): Skeptical Raptor | “The end of the vaccines cause autism myth”

      Just The Vax | “75 studies that show no link between vaccines and autism UPDATED to 107” )

      Are you advocating that MORE money be put towards research than that of treating and assisting children, or, otherwise?

      • Ron Roy

        “The
        evidence that vaccines are a major cause of the increase comes from a number of
        directions. One direction that’s been largely ignored are the laboratory
        studies. There are at least seven laboratory studies, clinical studies, of
        blood, cerebral, spinal fluid, biopsies of autistic children which show huge
        differences between autistic children and normal children in terms of the
        presence of things like measles vaccine virus in their intestinal tract, for
        example, or their neurons. So, there’s one line of evidence. Another,
        of course, is that we have data from thousands of parents who testify, often
        with videotapes and photographs and eyewitness reports, that their kid was
        perfectly normal. And they can demonstrate it, as I say, very conclusively with
        tapes until after the vaccine. The kid retreated into autism. There’s just
        converging evidence from many, many directions.”–
        (Nov 2002) Bernard Rimland PhD

        “We have about 30,000 or 35,000 children that we’ve taken care of over
        the years, and I don’t think we have a single case of autism in children
        delivered by us who never received vaccines…….Every doctor now essentially in this country has done
        something as heinous as the Nazis did, unknowingly.”—-Dr. Mayer Eisenstein

        “40 years ago when I started my practice only 1 in 10,000 children had
        autism. Today it’s 1 in 100. What is the only difference we have seen? The
        inordinate number of vaccines that are being given to children today. My
        partners and I have over 35,000 patients who have never been vaccinated. You
        know how many cases of autism we have seen? ZERO, ZERO. I have made this
        statement for over 40 years: “NO VACCINES NO AUTISM”.—Dr. Mayer Eisenstein
        (sourced
        http://www.ageofautism.com)

        • Jonathan Graham

          There are at least seven laboratory studies, clinical studies, of blood, cerebral, spinal fluid, biopsies of autistic children

          Which are not referenced. So again, is it entirely irrelevant if these studies exist or not? or if they are crappy? or if they are countered by more powerful epidemiological work?

          I mean if all you care about is finding someone who agrees with you. Why bother with doctors? There are probably some psychics and astrologers which will give you the same response.

          • Ron Roy

            You’re slipping in popularity Johnny. shay got 6 upvotes you only got 5.

        • shay simmons

          There are at least seven laboratory studies, clinical studies, of
          blood, cerebral, spinal fluid, biopsies of autistic children which show huge differences between autistic children and normal children in terms of the presence of things like measles vaccine virus in their intestinal tract, for example, or their neurons.

          Where are they?

    • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

      At what point can we simply tell them that they’re wrong though? It’s not that they’ve parents have been ignored, it’s that the Autism Omnibus plus thousands of studies simply show that they are wrong.

      https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/29caa8b67460692ece417e17b1c050466879eb42ebcff7f3720d50b0722c9212.jpg https://uploads.disquscdn.com/images/979a7591fcb9d270e9da429faad9e056962f7a4c458cd8a346b0384bb30b2c13.jpg

  • Dan

    A way to eliminate the central power in DC and force politicians to pay attention to more than just a handful of States. This book has a direct fix to the poverty situation. Do we have the true will to make these changes in DC and across the country that will eliminate the political usage of the impoverished or abuses of power from politicians? https://www.amazon.com/Fix-One-mans-Ideas-America-ebook/dp/B01JYHHMV4/ref=sr_1_1?s=digital-text&ie=UTF8&qid=1471376223&sr=1-1

    Thank you in advance for reading it. If you know anyone than can help make the changes please have them read it also
    Today only $2.99 I will never rais this price for the reader. I plan on having this in paper back after 2017 starts
    Thanks again,

  • Dee

    I would much rather have my child vaxxed and alive with autism than unvaxxed and dead from a preventable disease.

    • Blessed Bee

      Wow, you’d much rather DELIBERATELY damage your child’s brain then have them break out in the measles?
      You are a sick, twisted creature; and viciously evil.

      • Dee

        I can see by the name calling that you are a die hard liberal and it would be a waste of time presenting facts as they would only serve to confuse you.

        There is NO medical evidence that vaccines cause autism…NONE.

        More sick and twisted to force your child to suffer through a disease that they don’t have to, just because you’d believe a celebrity over medical proof. Non-vaxxers need to be charged with child abuse and neglect.

        • AutismDadd

          What a joke “NONE” you have Blind Faith Syndrome and are willfully blind. Unethical too

          • suz norkan

            Har d har! ‘Celebrity!’ That one always kills me! Giggle and guffaw! 😉

      • Brian

        Why do you love to eat children!?

        (that’s what you sound like to rational people)

        • suz norkan

          What disgusting PROP slop!

          • Brian

            Here are some more words.

            Crop Chop Flop Drop Glop Plop Shop Stop Swop Whop

          • suz norkan

            Like dr. suess, my little play on words contain a message! Your ‘slap is just crap,’ brian! 😉

          • Brian

            Suz is an anti-vax pain
            Who repeats every nonsensical claim
            Her temper will worsen
            When she speaks in third-person
            And then disqus bans her again!

          • suz norkan

            Please keep on tryin’,
            pathetic poster brian

            and with that I’ll say
            that I’ll leave you to play

            coz suz hates to see babies cryin’ 😉

          • Laura J

            nasty nasty they keep going on the thread. I blocked them though. Just because of a different perspective! Ugh what do you do??

          • suz norkan

            Brain shoots himself in the foot with his little ditty, while speaking to my fondness of alliteration, etc. Suz has NEVER been banned by disqus!

            His best bud, parrot Pro, however, has had a total disqus smackdown and powerwash; being banned by DISQUS, not just on separate, overly censored sites, [as were some of my individual sanctions] but every single site he’d posted on.

            Since brian brought it up, parrot Proponent lost over 2500+ comments from hundreds of disqus sites, when he bit the disqus dust and fell from grace!

            Mysteriously, Pro was reincarnated several mos. later, with his comment count beginning at 0! Guess he thought no one would notice if he waited several mos. to resurrect his name and av.

            As usual, brian is wrong again! No worries Laura! 😉

          • Laura J

            Thanks! YEah I don’t know what went down, but much better now. Are you getting smoke? I think it is messing with my sensitive head.

          • suz norkan

            They have a code orange up in columbia, but i understand your area is really feeling it. I’m with you, in that, I’m easily bothered by many types of smoke, fumes, exhaust, etc. Take care up there!

          • Laura J

            Yeah they arrested some people responsible today. The largest one burns 20,000 acres in blue ridge. Daughter coughs at night, our eyes water & sting & hard to breath a bit. Rain…supposed to get a weather change next week. Praying…kids can’t go outside & play 🙁

          • Proponent

            Tsk.. and double tsk.. another offtopic post.

            Flagged accordingly.

          • Laura J

            HOpe you are doing well & the smoke is not so bad down your way. Husband got 2 air purifiers yesterday, much better indoors and not coughing so bad. Kids can’t go outside and play because the smoke plumes stretch all the way from N. Georgia to Macon, and to the south coast too.

          • Proponent

            Flagged for.. offtopic.

          • Brian

            Anyone want to guess how many times suz lied in this post?

            If Proponent was banned, why I can still see all 2500+ posts?

            including this one from over a year ago, referring to you!
            RH Reality Check …….. banned (twice)
            AlterNet …………………… banned
            Raw Story ……………….. banned
            Mercury News ………….. banned (twice)
            Washington Times ……. banned
            A shot of prevention ….. banned
            LAist………………………… banned
            Patch………………………. banned
            Breitbart…………………… banned
            The Hill …………………… banned

            Why would anyone believe you when you say you’ve never been banned, ms suz norkan, @suz_norkaan, suz norkaan, @suznorkaan, suz norkaan, @suznorkan?

          • suz norkan

            I’ll take you up on that wager, you witless nitwit! Zero! I was NEVER banned by disqus, and Pros comments counts were restarted at zero.

            Ooopsi! Learn to read, you dolt!

          • Ron Roy

            Don’t block them fight them tooth and claw. Go to WHALE / VACCINE where you can find all the information you need to rebut any of their lies.

          • Jonathan Graham

            where you can find all the information you need to rebut any of their lies.

            As long as all you need to convince yourself are things which are statistically weak. If you need something statistically strong – well then you are better off opening a fortune cookie than going to Whale but that’s the secret the WHALE MAFIA doesn’t want to you know!

          • Ron Roy

            Whale / VACCINE folks see what Johnny’s afraid of.

          • Jonathan Graham

            I’ve just pointed out the obvious fact. Nobody, yourself included can produce anything that isn’t statistical crap out of whale. Feel free to prove me wrong.

          • Ron Roy

            Worried about vaccination being blamed for
            Regressive Autism, the health authorities and vaccine promoters quickly
            circulated the idea that autism, supposedly a purely “genetic disorder”,
            manifested itself between 18 and 24 months of age. In time, that somewhat
            preposterous idea became an accepted scientific fact, even though the syndrome
            was originally called “Infantile Autism” or “Kanner’s Infantile Autism” and an
            infant is, by definition, a child under the age of 12 months……So why don’t
            any of those little ones ever regress – really, really regress – at 11 months of
            age and why do they all wait and regress all together, just after
            their first birthday and their “one-year” check-up whether they are in the
            United States, the United Kingdom, Israel, Egypt or Australia?
            Why don’t we ever, ever hear of babies regressing into autism during the
            vaccine break period, between 6 and 12 months of age or more specifically
            between age 9 and 12 months, when they are doing all those wonderful exciting
            things we need to call the neighbors, friends and family to witness or quickly
            find the movie camera to record?

            WHY, WHY, WHY

            DON’T BABIES REGRESS BEFORE THEIR ONE-YEAR CHECK-UP? [2011 Jan] Why Don’t
            Children Regress Before They Turn One? by F. Edward Yazbak, MD, FAAP

          • Jonathan Graham

            So why don’t any of those little ones ever regress – really, really regress – at 11 months of age

            Well a) apparently the perceived loss of skills does happen…
            https://www.autismspeaks.org/sites/default/files/images/legacy/images/inthenews/d_200806_age-at-skill-loss-level.gif I’ll state in advance that this chart isn’t the greatest but it’s no worse (and probably a bit better) than Yazbak’s anecdotal nonsense.

            Why don’t we ever, ever hear of babies regressing into autism during the vaccine break period, between 6 and 12 months of age or more specifically between age 9 and 12 months

            Well by looking at that chart we can conclude that Yazbak’s hearing is broken.

          • Proponent

            I am having difficulties finding this.. erhm.. article, Ron Roy? Is it on the WHALE / VACCINE website?

            … …

            Curious thing, in that you have not made mention of WHALE / VACCINE once in your posts to this discussion here.

            I wonder why..

          • Ron Roy

            ”Curious thing, in that you have not made mention of WHALE / VACCINE once in your posts to this discussion here.I wonder why..”.DUH maybe because some of the articles / papers I post are NOT from WHALE. Sorry to hear you’re having difficulties. I suggest you try harder.

          • Proponent

            Once more, then..

            I am having difficulties finding this.. erhm.. article, Ron Roy? Is it on the WHALE / VACCINE website?

          • Laura J

            Fight them I did modestly with free speecch and still got banned because Dr. Amy brought up the election and her fear on Trump. It’s a public site but she sabotages lots of ppl because of their views. Her followers as well. Wish I could override that! But there’s other sites worthy and great people too! thanks!
            Smoke is so bad here in GA. The weather does say a big system coming in next week..pray it holds together and puts out the fires. It’s like someone is smoking in your face for 2 weeks…

          • Proponent
          • Laura J

            Go trump!

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb
          • Laura J

            reported…

          • Proponent

            But.. but.. but, I am exercising my right to free speech!

          • FallsAngel

            For what?

          • Laura J

            Second I hope she [AMY] is sued to the ground for the abuse and pain she has caused to so many victims!! I hope the pharm vaccine industry is SUED because they hid the truth!

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            What is your evidence they hid the truth?

          • Laura J

            I’m done with the Skeptical B. She doubts she is a loony and should be at the funny farm.

          • FallsAngel

            I blocked her months ago. Much easier to ignore her that way.

          • suz norkan

            The myopic minded LOVE block features! Suz prefers to engage her reality, katia! 😉

        • AutismDadd

          No she doesn’t. Why do you hate vaccine injuey victims? Explain the 19 countries with compensation programs for something that barely exists according to you willfully blind baboons.

      • Mike Stevens

        Stop misquoting and distorting what he said.
        It was the choice between having autism and death from infectious disease.
        So you’d rather have people dead than have more employees in Silicon Valley? Now who is sick, twisted and evil?

        …See what I did there…

        • suz norkan

          It’s so cute how you pro vaxers pat yourself on the back for every burp and fart, mikey!

          It also helps cover your flawed attitudes on mild vpds vs SEVERE vax injuries. So *good on you* sweetie! Clap! Clap! Clap! 😉

          • AutismDadd

            Mike (pathetic) Stevens

          • Laura J

            Justice for the injured vaccinated!

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Shut up the “It’s vaccines’ fault that I didn’t get the child I expected/wanted/desired” brigade if you want vaccine-injury internet stories to be left scrutinized.

        • AutismDadd

          Pathetic Mike. How many of the World’s 70 million autistics work in Silicon Valley? Talk about distorted,

        • sabelmouse

          ”It was the choice between having autism and death from infectious disease.”no it wasn’t/isn’t.

          • Mike Stevens

            “no it wasn’t/isn’t.”
            I know you have comprehension problems, Sabel, but the choice that Dee proposed was quite clearly one between autism and death:
            “I would much rather have my child vaxxed and alive with autism than unvaxed and dead from a preventable disease.”

          • sabelmouse

            except that isn’t the choice in real life.

          • Mike Stevens

            No it isn’t, I agree, because IRL vaccines don’t cause autism.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            No, the choice in real life is “Do you want to protect your child from both autism and measles or neither?”

          • sabelmouse

            you seem badly informed.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Seem being the operative word, mousey. You’re not a great judge of these things.

        • AutismDadd

          How many of the 70 million with autism work in Silicon Valley Mike?

    • Mike Stevens

      But that isn’t a choice you need take, since vaccines don’t cause autism.

      • Dee

        I agree with that, I am very pro necessary vaccinations (however I am against Guardasil) My point was though that it’s better to have your child alive than in the grave from something so easily prevented.

        • FallsAngel

          It’s also better for you child not to get cervical cancer, vulvar cancer, anal, penile cancer, head and neck cancer. There’s no reason to oppose Gardasil.

          • AutismDadd

            Imagine penile and cervical at the same time….ew try Gardeathsil, better to end up in a wheelchair that get those two at the same time.

          • JoeFarmer

            Derp.

          • Ron Roy

            Phony farmer.

          • ibid.

            People are entitled to their own opinions, even if they don’t agree 100% with you.

          • FallsAngel

            As I am entitled to mine!

          • JoeFarmer

            Heh, the purity squad is making its presence known again…

          • FallsAngel

            Exactly!

          • JoeFarmer

            I still LOL about “Cathy” calling you, “Ms. Congeniality”! Totally passive-aggressive, just like how Zogby, Ivan and the rest of the cool kids act…

          • Bishop

            “Purity Squad.” Is that the αѕѕhole who can’t tolerate anyone varying even the slightest from her Pharma approved message?

            Just trying to figure out who to add to the bury list.

          • JoeFarmer

            Keep figuring. I’m sure it will come to you in time.

            Btw, nice job with the alternate character usage! I’m sure your 6th grade keyboarding teacher would be proud.

            “I’m just trying to figure out who to add to the bury list.”

            So ominous. Makes teh whole interweb quiver…

          • Bishop

            Pick your battles, son.

            It’s time for you to decide just how strongly you feel about things.

          • JoeFarmer

            “Pick your battles, son.”

            Sorry, champ, but the last man to call me, “son” was my dad.

            “It’s time for you to decide just how strongly you feel about things.”

            Well, I can understand how wearing a camo onesie would make someone like you feel all froggy. I am all about being inclusive though, especially given the events that have transpired over the last week.

            I hope we can still be interweb-friends.

          • Ron Roy

            Go back to your imaginary farm Joey.

          • Marisa Conover

            You appear to be suffering from Stage 3 “trolloma”. Do they have a vaccine for that??

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Please can you show me where FallsAngel trolled you? Note: Trolling does not mean “disagreed with you”.

        • AutismDadd

          Your point is crap. And its Gardeathsil and being against it makes you a nutter, a flat Earhter, a 9/ 11 and holocaust denier and an anti-vaxxing Wakefield cult member.

          • suz norkan

            I still like ‘guardaKILL!’ 😉

          • AutismDadd

            Really? Over GARDEATHSIL??? Come on now!

          • suz norkan

            Gardeathsil makes me sound like I have a lisp! But what can I say! They’re both certainly accurate! 😉

          • AutismDadd

            If you get Gardeathsil you’ll get more than a lisp.

          • suz norkan

            I was going to upvote with a ‘smiley’ reply, but it is all so sad and heartbreaking for the injured. But so very TRUE, adadd! 🙁

          • Ron Roy

            I like them both.

          • suz norkan

            We like the description but loathe the vax for the devastation it’s caused so many!

      • AutismDadd

        Mike has no credibility. He’s pro-vac

    • Diet dee

      The chance off getting a VPD and then dying is very low. Autistic kids tend to have higher rate of accidental deaths.

      • Damo

        You are right, thanks to vaccines, the chance of getting VPD is very low.

        • Ron Roy

          And the chances of getting a lifelong illness due to a vaccine is very high.

    • AutismDadd

      Then we wish you get your wish and enjoy watching your child struggle and never have a life. Then that child will die alone w/o family after a life of frustration and anxiety.

    • Ron Roy

      You’re a very sick person aren’t you?

  • Trumpcat

    How come Trump is on the right side about every possible subject I hear him taking a side on? Protect the kids from pharmaceutical conglomerates.

  • Laura J

    Great idea to propose. Finally, maybe they’ll be modified more if they find the ingredients or such that may indeed cause autism.

  • Father O’Reiley

    Good one Mr Trump! One down and a great deal more crap for you to sort out like Constant Wars, Fluoride Water Poisoning,and Chembombs and Chemtrails, GMO’s HAARP, EISCAT3D, Gwen Towers, Fema Camps, Walmarts, Big Pharma, Etc etc etc the list just goes on and on.
    We are going to be busy arn’t we! Perhaps a strongly fortified ‘Pope Mobile’ type vehicle will also be a first priority for you, to keep you defended from those pesky bankers friends as well.
    Don’t let e’m beat you, and keep up the fight for fairness to all, we are right behind you in this quest to regaining our free world!
    The Venus Project is a great ‘Money Free’ Global Plan that is available right now for us all to embrace.
    Why not try something new for a positive change, that does not involve the ‘Hunger and Lusts for Money’ and all the madness that it brings with it?

  • Marisa Conover

    INFORMED CONSENT, which includes the right to refuse any medical treatment or drug, is the most important right people have to protect themselves from predatory healthcare. Be sure to have your attorney draft a notarized Advance Healthcare Directive that clearly states what treatments and/or drugs you REFUSE under any circumstances. Doesn’t matter what the so called “pro-vaxx” community or your doctor/ healthcare provider says; if I object, you CAN’T inject!!

    • Brian

      You’re free to make as many dumb decisions for yourself as you wish, but that doesn’t free you from the consequences of those decisions, and it doesn’t necessarily extend to your children of it puts them at risk.

      • Marisa Conover

        ….and it doesn’t absolve a predatory healthcare worker from criminal prosecution when they arrogantly violate and ignore the law and their victim’s rights. Why don’t you have a discussion about it with former RN and CONVICTED Felony Elder Abuser Gwen Hughes. Call the CA Attorney General’s Office; I’m sure they can tell you what prison she resides in. Like I said before…go away troll….http://www.bakersfield.com/news/former-nursing-director-sentenced-to-years-for-inappropriately-medicating-patients/article_ce583533-5757-5f4c-8c0b-36db29cca62b.html

        • Brian

          I believe on this thread the anti-vaxxers call me a “reptillian hybrid troll”. 😉

          Predatory healthcare workers should be prosecuted for the crimes they commit, just like scam artists like Wakefield should be held accountable for the crimes they commit.

          • acumenata

            Seriously, Brian, put that on your resumé in the section titled “things people on the internet have called me”.

          • Brian

            That section would be mighty long. I only wish that all those who have called me a “paid shill” were actually right. I could sure use the money.

        • AutismDadd

          So that includes pediatricians. What about being FIRED as a patient because you don’t vaccinate?

          • Ron Roy

            If only people would live by: Harm my child pay the price. There would be fewer doctors pushing vaccines.

        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

          Of course it doesn’t. What was your point?

          • Marisa Conover

            “Dumb Dumb” strikes again. If you are incapable of understanding my point, then you should be sharing a prison cell with former RN and convicted Felony Elder Abuser Gwen Hughes. The two of you can ponder together, my point….

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            *Sigh* The point was that your point wasn’t what anyone was advocating.

          • Proponent

            Note: This might fill in some of the blanks.

            (/ Two links there.. in case you don’t catch both.)

          • Michael McCarthy

            Hmm, some good reading. Thanks!!

      • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

        And it certainly doesn’t extend to other children at school.

    • Ron Roy

      Any healthcare worker who attempts to forcibly vaccinate your child is a criminal and should be treated as such.

    • FallsAngel

      Methinks you doth protest too much! No one wants to vaccinate a person who doesn’t want to be vaccinated, or their kids.

      • suz norkan

        You post public prevarications again, katia!

        • Marisa Conover

          Her gas lighting claptrap is an utter bore….

          • acumenata

            Uh, do you understand what gaslighting is?

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Please can you show where we gaslighted you?

            Note gaslighting does not mean ‘disagreed with my claims and showed that they were wrong with evidence’.

          • suz norkan

            What is “Gaslighting”?
            Gaslighting is a form of psychological abuse used by narcissists in order to instill in their victim’s an extreme sense of anxiety and confusion to the point where they no longer trust their own memory, perception or judgment. The techniques used in “Gaslighting” by the narcissist are similar to those used in brainwashing, interrogation, and torture that have been used in psychological warfare by intelligence operative, law enforcement and other forces for decades.

      • Marisa Conover
        • FallsAngel

          The nurse in the video is falling out of her shirt, and she’s lying. It’s not because of the ACA that patients are asked about the vaccines. I think she’s lying about these “biogenics”, too, and giving vaccines under anesthesia.

          • Marisa Conover

            So tell me as a Nurse who worked 45 years; did you ever work in elder care?

          • FallsAngel

            Yes

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Or got it confused with biologics. Given that surgery might require a blood transfusion or other variations on that theme (which would come under biologics)…this sounds like a sensible precaution to include it on the consent form. Not seeing the problem here.

        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

          0:19: Asking for information is not a refusal of informed consent. It’s a medically relevant question. No force.

          0:22: Normally, people who do these and know what they’re talking about would add a url at this point so that we could go check out the policy for ourselves.

          0:38-0:44: Being offered a vaccine =/= forced. “No thank you.” Sheesh, for people so much smarter than the global scientific and medical consensus, three syllables can’t be that hard.

          0:54: Where’s the link between offered and given?

          0:59: So…you’re asked if you want the vaccine, you refuse the vaccine so they say you refused the vaccine and make a note of it. What’s the big problem? It’s not air-quotes, you DID refuse the vaccine.

          1:26: No, it’s called biologics. While vaccines are covered as biologics, there is such a thing as implicit consent information legally. You know what that part is for? “Can we give you a blood transfusion if we need to?”

          1:46: So they signed the consent form, saying yes. How is this forcing vaccines again?

          1:49 – 2:10: How can you not know unless you get your medical records if they tell you when you wake up?

          2:17-2:20: “Excuse me Doctor. I have a question. What does the word biologics mean/cover?” That’s a problem that can be easily solved. If these two people were too lazy…..well….doctors and surgeons can’t be expected to magically know that people say ‘yes’ because it sounds prettier.

          2:29 – No, the word is biologics.

          2:43: So you can say ‘No vaccines’ and initial it. Again, how is this forced?

          3;26: So…hospitals have a policy, that you can sign and write and initial ‘no vaccines’, you can ask what biologics mean – if you don’t do any of that…well….that’s hardly forced. It’s just you being a lazy beggar.

          Even if we take all this as true, it’s really no different to the situation for schools in most of the states. Technically, it’s the rule that schoolkids are vaccinated. But you can sign a form.

          This is: The policy is we might vaccinate you after having told you that. Write no vaccines and initial it to get a Belief Exemption. It’s really not complicated.

          • FallsAngel

            Excellent response. Did you see the intro to the video, where they have the word “biologics” in parentheses, as if to explain that’s what she really meant? Why not just re-record it? What a sloppy job! I just thought the goat semen reference that I found re: biogenics was funny.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Didn’t bother watching the intro.

          • suz norkan

            Threatening the the loss of a child’s education or loss of family income for home schooling is coercion & negates the nuremberg code!

  • Marisa Conover

    **ATTN** To those who do not wish to engage with pro-vaxx trolls, just move your cursor to the far right of their name and a downward arrow will pop up; click on the arrow and you will have the option to block the person who is trolling, like I just did with “Brian”…..

    • Brian

      An easier way would be to simply put your phone or computer on airplane mode.

      Out of curiosity, is everyone who understands that vaccines don’t cause autism a “pro-vaxx troll”?

    • acumenata

      How nice of the internet to provide you with tools to create an alternate reality where everyone thinks you’re brilliant and says your theories are valid.

      • Marisa Conover

        I make public disclosures about laws at the Federal and State levels that patients need to be aware of; laws clearly written to protect patients from predatory healthcare workers. Laws and Patient’s rights are most certainty NOT and “alternate reality”, but arrogant healthcare industry workers can’t stand when people know, understand and exercise their RIGHT under the LAW.

        • acumenata

          Nice edit of your original comment. That aside, the alternate reality is making public disclosures about things to an echo chamber in which you decline to even see comments from people who are posting factual information that conflicts with your reports. That’s not clean disclosure of the facts that allows the public to make decisions and form their own opinions. It is merely dishonest and more than a little condescending toward those who DO need to know, understand, and exercise rights.

          • Marisa Conover

            Law is FACT and the FACT is, consumers have a right to Informed Consent under Federal and State Law. What part of “Law” don’t you get? Oh, I forgot, predatory healthcare workers routinely violate and IGNORE patient’s rights and the Law…..https://www.law.cornell.edu/cfr/text/42/482.13

          • Brian

            “Informed consent” doesn’t come from conspiracy videos on YouTube. If you want people to take you seriously, stick to more credible sources.

          • acumenata

            I would add that no conversation about predatory ‘healthcare’ practices can be introduced without including alternative practitioners and self-branded supplement pushers like Mercola and ‘heath ranger Mike Adams in that group.

          • Brian

            Agreed.

          • suz norkan

            Only they ain’t keeping kiddies outta’ their classrooms! Ooops! I smell coercion [loss of free will choice], loss of the right to participate in informed consent and mandatory vax a-comin’!

          • acumenata

            You think Trump is going to enact all of those things? If you’re right, this is going to get mighty interesting.

          • suz norkan

            I spoke exclusively to your absurd remark comparing a free will choice without coercion, of an individual to purchase health supplements, to the loss of informed consent and the advance of mandatory vax and other medical tyranny!

          • acumenata

            The absurdity is in you thinking that I compared those two things. I didn’t. They were two separate comments on two entirely separate topics.

            On topic 1: Where exactly is this loss of informed consent occurring? Where exactly is mandatory vaccination taking place in the US? Are any people being vaccinated clandestinely or against their will? No. Vaccination is highly recommended for public health reasons. Actually being vaccinated remains an elective decision. Those who don’t want themselves or their children to be vaccinated are free to say no.

            Regarding your last comment: My doctors have always prescribed supplements when medically warranted and preferable over other treatments. Anyone is free to discuss options and efficacy of various treatments with their healthcare provider, and should. That’s called informed consent and patient rights.

          • suz norkan

            I told you what issue in your absurd comment that I replied to, and I should know, because I read stated absurd issue in your comment and was compelled to respond to it’s absurdity!

          • acumenata

            Merc and Davis aren’t keeping kids out of schools. The state governments set those public health policies. The pharmaceutical companies aren’t keeping unvaccinated people out of the military, either. That’s the federal government’s decision.

          • suz norkan

            That’s RIGHT! Merc and davis aren’t keeping children from attending the schools their parents taxes paid for. So much for your ‘absurd’ comment!

            I speak for the children; and YES! Anyone with eyes saw sb277 [pan] being bought and paid for by pharma cos. to be entered into ca. law!

            And YES! Lack of free will choice causing hardship on a child’s education and/or family finances is coercion and negates nuremberg for those who would otherwise decline vax due to history of untoward side effects [still deemed experimental for the long term]!

          • acumenata

            To your first point, your beef is with the taxation system and the political system.

            Taxation is inherently unfair if you view it from the individual level. People who have no children pay taxes for public schools they can’t use, too. People who disagree with wars nonetheless fund them with their taxes.

            You are seriously comparing your privileged first world problems to real hardship and Nuremberg? Get some perspective. While you’re at it, spend some time in a country ravaged by preventable diseases.

          • suz norkan

            My first and only point is that you made an absurd comment. I called you on it!

          • acumenata

            Yes, you did. And laughed at your interpretation. I guess that makes it a tie if you’re that into keeping score.

          • suz norkan

            In this country you are still FREE to laugh at will. And suz is ‘here all week!’

            However, tonight’s trash night! And on that note, it’s time to take out the garbage!

            Ta for now, hakuna matata! 😉

          • acumenata

            Scribit pao!

          • suz norkan

            Carpe diem! Mwah! 😉

          • acumenata

            What part of “information is there for the asking” and “healthcare providers in the US are not forcibly vaccinating patients against their will” don’t you get? You’re all on about patients’ rights. Where, specifically, do you see patients’ rights being violated in this context?

          • acumenata

            ENTERTAINING POSTSCRIPT: Marisa has reverted back to the short version of her original comment after her attempt to spin it as a lofty patient rights mission. It’s hard to appear credible with that story when you’re actively telling people they should close their ears to everything she doesn’t want them to hear or consider.

    • Ron Roy

      Actually engaging these pro-vaxx trolls is a good way for people to learn the truth about health destroying vaccines.

      • suz norkan

        Blocking gives users like katia and dumb dumb, the same illusion of the rose tinted glasses they view the world through, when those opposing MANDATORY vax point out the govt. corruption and coi’s involved in MOST of their beloved ‘research!’

        They fail to realize that the rest of the world is reading ‘around’ them, simply because they lack the moxie to deal with reality.

        See my comment to katia’s hypocritical remark above! What a joke she is!

      • Marisa Conover

        I’ll leave engaging with pro-vcxx trolls to safe vaccine and anti-vaccine activists. My purpose here is to create public awareness about a patient’s right to Informed Consent, which includes the right to refuse any treatment or drug. I understand the dilemma parents face because of the laws with regard to minor children, but in CA, they are beating the drum to force vaccinate adults. Furthermore, hospitals across the United States are covertly giving flu and pneumonia vaccines to adult surgery patients while under anesthesia. People MUST be made aware about their rights. Please view this video from a whistleblower Nurse, who discusses how hospitals are covertly vaccinating patients without FULL Informed Consent. Knowledge is power. As an adult, if a predatory healthcare worker forces a treatment on you without your Informed Consent and/or against your will, it is assault and battery and they can face criminal charges in addition to Civil…..https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=7XqRxsvNc7Y

    • FallsAngel

      Why are you on a discussion board if you don’t want to discuss? This isn’t supposed to be a love-in for anti-vaxers.

      • suz norkan

        Har d har! THIS from the imbecile who just bragged about ‘blocking’ adadd and suz! We always DID take you for a myopic minded hypocrite, katia, sonja, FALSEangel! Thanks for the proof, katia!

        • AutismDadd

          I thought
          FalseAngel was tanya?

          • suz norkan

            She was katia before sonja! Such are the childish games of FALSE [thanks for another goodie, adadd] angel and dumb dumb, aka padawan and jenny higgs!

          • Kevin

            What is your concern as to one’s previous posting name?,we are here to debate on a topic and as such the name of a poster past or present has no relevance to the discussion.

          • suz norkan

            I replied to adadd! So what’s it to YOU, kevin!

            However, to your contrary, it makes a difference to reader/participants who used to see an aggressive, pro mandatory vax commentator named katia post non stop. Then suddenly, after yrs. of using the nym katia, this commentator ‘falls’ off the grid but is replaced by one now calling herself, sonja henie!

            Katia/sonja then drops the henie and adds the ‘spinning jenny!’ Can you say ‘fickle and frivolous,’ kevin! I betcha’ can!

            Several wks. pass, and katia/sonja reinvents herself as falseangel, so she can forever ‘crybaby’ over her LL gang fall from grace.

            Grasshopper, padawan, neophyte, jenny, ‘dumb dumb’ is still a babe, so her capricious childishness is to be expected.

            So yeah! Continuity matters when you’re in it for the long haul on these specific debates! And YOU are off topic, kevin!

            Mwah!
            Love, suz! 😉

          • Kevin

            Well Suz you are wrong.What one calls oneself is not important,what is important is that we stay on topic and provide sensible input,whether I am Tom Dick or Harry is IRRELEVANT.

          • suz norkan

            Well kevin, it’s YOU who are wrong! The conversation is only as good as those who choose to offer commentary.

            Katia’s always arrogant and often erred posting style remains, no matter WHAT she calls herself, and it only took 1 or 2 posts to realize that katia was now sonja!

            Padawan is simply an inexperienced child attempting to sound smart with all her incessant googles and witless, spammy memes, in the grown ups audience.

            The unnecessary, ridiculous fickleness is confusing to readers and participants who have known, conversed with, countered and/or followed vax war debate for yrs.

            At least a notice in one’s profile may be helpful if one feels compelled to change their nym after having the same name for yrs., as another poster had diligently done.

            Perhaps you’ll ‘get it’ in a yr. or so, when you’re no longer a newbie.

            For now, ‘shoot straight, fly right and stay on TARGET,’ kevin! 😉

          • Ron Roy

            Take it easy on ” Kevin ” That’s really ol Joe / Neil / Josephine back on his medication. Isn’t it nice of these shills making poor old Joe, I mean Kevin, feel as one of their own?

          • suz norkan

            I often wonder how many readers are naive enough to believe the 30 plus votes brookie and other LL crew nearly spontaneously garner [since they are basically all one voter/poster with new babes, barbies and kens born on demand] and just how ‘naive’ brookie, et al think people are!

            But I admit, I didn’t see the kevin/neil correlation! In my defense I’ll blame it on not being on the comment and blog boards as much.

            Thanks for the ‘heads up,’ r.r. 😉

          • Ron Roy

            You’re welcome.

          • AutismDadd

            Up votes are as meaningless as arm pit hair. Who cares if these frauds play that imbecile game. They all parrot the same rubbish and never has one said one thing that ever impressed me. They don’t like being called names, but its about all I can offer these people and of course sympathy to their poor poor parents.

      • Marisa Conover

        I create public awareness about INFORMED CONSENT; a law at the Federal and State levels that is clearly worded. Many people are unaware they have the right to Informed Consent, which includes the right to refuse any treatment or drug “recommended” by a healthcare worker.

        • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

          Marisa:

          1)There are certain extremely limited circumstances in which I can force a vaccine on you. E.g. You lack capacity and I have a court order.

          2)Please can you show me where anyone was held down absent a lack of capacity + court order.

          • Marisa Conover

            When a patient “lacks capacity” or is unable to make their own medical decision, under Federal AND State Law, the Durable and/or Medical Durable Power Of Attorney-In-Fact has decision making power and authority over ALL other decision makers, including authority over MDs, NPs, RNs or any other healthcare worker. If the MDPOA says NO, you may NOT administer any drugs, even if an MD recommends it. Ignore and violate the orders or not bother to get Informed Consent from the MDPOA, you and your employer would most definitely be at risk for civil and/or criminal prosecution. My petite, 82 year old Mother, who had NO mental illness and NO dementia, died just days after being FORCIBLY injected with the powerful and dangerous antipsychotic drug Haldol, against her will and against MY orders as her Durable and Medical Durable Power Of Attorney-In-Fact by an unscrupulous Nurse! My Mother was only supposed to do a short term week of rehab for a back sprain, but was instead egregiously medically assaulted just minutes after I left, despite the fact that I was at that facility every single day, morning, afternoons, evenings and overnight hours. The inappropriate drugging of the elderly is Felony Elder Abuse in the United States and I will NOT rest until those involved are arrested, charged, prosecuted, convicted and sent to State Prison for what they did to my Mother. I have had National and Local Television and newspaper Press on what happened to my Mother. My Mother is a featured victim in this ABC expose’ on the abuse by predatory healthcare workers, who drug their victims without consent. To view the ABC story, please click on the smaller video screen below the thumbnail pic of my husband and I standing at my Mother’s grave with the ABC News Crew. For some reason, the larger video screen is unable to load…..http://www.abc10.com/news/investigations/chemical-restraints-anti-psychotic-meds-given-to-elderly-despite-warnings/181919144

          • Marisa Conover

            PS: After my Mother’s horrific death, I tried to find out exactly who was behind the “LLC” of Roseville Point Health and Wellness Center. The first time I heard the name “Shlomo Rechnitz”, was when I got a call from Pulitzer Prize Winning Journalist Marjie Lundstrom, who has done a series of expose’ stories in the Sacramento Bee on the appalling allegations of abuse, neglect and death within Shlomo Rechnitz’s nursing home chain. And now, The National Union Of Healthcare Workers is exposing him! Here is a website the NUHW set up specifically to create public awareness of what they describe as a “notorious” nursing home chain owner. How many more grieving families will it take before they stop this man?….http://briuswatch.org

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Tax dollars paying for this shoddy care? No. That would be the situation in the UK.

            I said if they lacked capacity AND I had a court order.

            I don’t know why you’re ranting about the felony in the US to me. By the way, what would be withholding necessary care in the US?

          • Marisa Conover

            Sorry “Dumb Dumb” but you didn’t mention you were from the UK when you asked me to give you an example of a patient who was force drugged against their will. I site the Laws in the US because that’s where I live and the US is where my Mother was medically assaulted. I know the Laws here with regard to Informed Consent and force drugging an elderly victim by predatory healthcare workers is indeed, Felony Elder Abuse in the United States and the healthcare predator is subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution. YES, taxpayers pay for the egregious abuse in the United States and it KILLS over 15,000 elderly victims each year. Please review the NATIONAL UNION OF HEALTHCARE WORKERS in my “ps” below, who are exposing the man that owns the facility where my Mother was forcibly injected. Furthermore, well over 440,000 people needless die due to preventable medical harm each year in the United States, making it the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, behind heart disease and cancer. That’s two jumbo jets full of people every, single day and it doesn’t even make front page news. Big Pharma harm is the 4th leading cause of death in the United States.

          • Marisa Conover

            Sorry “Dumb Dumb” but you didn’t mention you were from the UK when you asked me to give you an example of a patient who was force drugged against their will. I site the Laws in the US because that’s where I live and the US is where my Mother was medically assaulted. I know the Laws here with regard to Informed Consent and force drugging an elderly victim by predatory healthcare workers is indeed, Felony Elder Abuse in the United States and the healthcare predator is subject to civil and/or criminal prosecution. YES, taxpayers pay for the egregious abuse in the United States and Chemical Restraints KILL over 15,000 elderly victims each year. Please review the NATIONAL UNION OF HEALTHCARE WORKERS in my “ps” below, who are exposing the man that owns the facility where my Mother was forcibly injected. Furthermore, well over 440,000 people needlessly die due to preventable medical harm each year in the United States, making it the 3rd leading cause of death in the US, behind heart disease and cancer. That’s two jumbo jets full of people every, single day and it doesn’t even make front page news. Big Pharma harm is the 4th leading cause of death in the United States.

          • Marisa Conover

            ps: To answer your last question; in the United States, if a patient has executed and notarized an Advance Healthcare Directive, a hospital, nursing facility or any healthcare worker may NOT go against the wishes of a patient, their Advance Directive and/or their Medical Durable Power Of Attorney acting in the best interest of the patient and their wishes.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            I asked you to give me an example of forced vaccines as was germane to the topic we were talking about.

            Please visit my public profile – what does it say under location?

            I note that you didn’t answer my question.

            Citation needed for the rest of the rant.

          • Marisa Conover

            I’m talking about INFORMED CONSENT. Go debate vaccines with the many people on here who would be more than happy to go head to head with you. I could care less about visiting your profile pic. “Dumb Dumb” says it all….

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            Had you bothered to visit my public profile (not profile pic) then you’d know about the UK thing.

          • Marisa Conover

            I stand corrected; yes, I could care less about visiting your public profile. Good day to you…

          • Ron Roy

            3rd leading cause of death.

          • suz norkan

            In case you missed it, her story is heartbreaking, rr!

          • Marisa Conover

            That’s what I said….

          • Ron Roy

            Miss read what you said sorry. I stand corrected. Keep up the good work.

          • suz norkan

            Wow! The tears welled in my eyes, but as your story progressed, I became so enraged that I got goosebumps.

            First, may I please offer condolences on the loss of your mother.

            Secondly, to ALL readers, please read to the end to view an URGENT WARNING!

            Thirdly, and surely not to minimize your message in any way [but only in an effort to enhance your dire warning] I’d like to share my experience with my 7 yr. old child. My youngest child is over 30 now, but back when even johns hopkins ‘in patient’ failed to recognize the symptoms of autism, some LOCAL drs. wrongly dxed her with childhood schizophrenia, prescribing treatment of large doses of haldol. Haldol was not even APPROVED for children and my child was only 7 at the time. **It was NOT j.h. who dxed the c.s., however, they ALSO were not able to dx autsim back then.

            We didn’t have internet then, so I lived at the library while my child was in patient in a local hosp., and I slowly became familiar with the rarity of c.s. AND of the side effects of neuroleptics! One day after work, I went to visit my young daughter, I viewed through the gym window, that she was unable to turn her neck and that her eyes were fixed in an upward position. She hugged me and said ‘mommy, I’m addicted to looking at the walls!’ The crowd of parents wanting to chat with the nurse, parted to let us through, when they saw the outrage on my face, and I promptly announced that she was suffering from extrapyrimadols. They disagreed, but when we all got back to the rooms, I demanded they involve the doc. They doc agreed and a shot of benedryll quickly relaxed my daughters eps. within mins.

            We were lucky to observe her sensitivity to neuroleptics and STOP them, early on. But 25 yrs. later, a minute amt. of a neuro undisclosed in scripted cough syrup would send her into a catatonic event which of course became an emergency where I could have easily lost my child, even though NO neuro had been used in the past 25 yrs., after the nimh agreed that my child did NOT meet criteria for c.s.

            However, the truly sad part is that many in the m.h. genre today continue to needlessly push these horrid anti psychotics onto autistic children.

            I urge any parent today in such a situation to realize the DANGERS of using neuroleptics in your child, as neuroleptic malignant syndrome can occur WITHOUT WARNING and can be FATAL in as little as several hours. I was NOT given ANY of these cautionary side effects at the time.

            There are few things in our lives that are more important than medical informed consent and protecting the laws that allow us the right to FREELY participate in our own medical choices withOUT coercion!

            Pay no mind to the ‘callous disregard’ of those who push mandatory vax! Dumb dumb is a sunday driver who still lives with mummy & daddy!

            Thank you Marisa, for so strongly advocating for informed consent and against medical tyranny!

          • suz norkan

            First, let me offer my condolences on the loss of your mother!

            Second, dumb dumb is a sunday driver who still lives with mum & dad!

            Lastly, there are few things in life that are more important than medical informed consent and protecting the laws that enforce it; allowing us the right to FREELY participate in our medical choices without coercion.

            Thank you, Marisa, for so strongly advocating for informed consent and against medical tyranny!

          • Marisa Conover

            Thank you for your condolences. I will NOT rest until those involved in the forcible injection of Haldol upon my Mother are arrested, charged, prosecuted, convicted and sent to State Prison for what they did.

          • Ron Roy

            Any MAN who would be given a court order to forcibly vaccinate his children should find the judge who issued that order and put it where the sun doesn’t shine!

        • ciaparker2

          They have always given the hep-B vaccine at birth without permission. My newborn got it even though I had told her future pediatrician I didn’t want her to get it as I’d read it often caused autism. And she reacted with vaccine encephalitis and autism. The mandate for public school in California, West Virginia, and Mississippi means that parents with no option but to send their children to public school are forced to give consent, however unwillingly. And parents must be fully informed as to the risks of vaccines before they can give informed consent. Several problems to work on.

          • Brian

            Newsflash! Vaccines still don’t cause autism.

          • Ron Roy

            Newsflash they do. And dozens of other debilitating diseases.

        • Mike Stevens

          You are correct, everyone has a right to informed consent.
          Vaccines are given with informed consent – a Vaccine Information Statement must be given to the patient/parent to read and it describes the possible benefits and side effects of the vaccine.
          It is possible there are the extremely rare ocassions where this is not done – if so then that is negligence on the part of the health care team.

          • Ron Roy

            Bull! The statements given to parents don’t list all the possible injuries from vaccines that are listed on the inserts.

          • suz norkan

            I never received anything whatsoever for my children! It was standard procedure for the pediatrician to ‘just vax’ according to schedule!

          • Ron Roy

            My kids were never vaccinated but you’re right, Whenever I accompanied anyone to a family practice clinic the nurses there didn’t show them any literature concerning vaccines but those going to a pediatrician sometimes did.

          • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

            You mean like SIDs where the unvaccinated group has more? There’s a reason adverse events aren’t listed on the VIS. Informed consent.

          • Ron Roy

            “The role of vaccines, particularly the whole-cell pertussis (whooping cough)
            vaccine can be understood when it is realised that this vaccine contains a variable and
            uncontrollable amount of endotoxin that is injected and absorbed, unaltered, into the
            blood. It does not even go first to the liver where attempts to detoxify it could be made.
            If an infant happens to be particularly sensitive to endotoxin when the vaccine is
            injected, brain damage or death can result….It should be now apparent that any infant
            with gastrointestinal problems – abnormal organisms, intestinal parasites, loose bowel
            motions resulting from the use of antibiotics, and malabsorption of food (including
            lactose intolerance) – is liable, when further stressed, to produce endotoxin and this can
            end in a SIDS….If the Vitamin C status of an infant is borderline, the administration of
            a vaccine, particularly (but not only) pertussis vaccine, can result in endotoxaemia. This
            results in a severe reaction to the vaccine, a tremendous increase in the need for Vitamin
            C, and the precipitation of some of the signs and/or symptoms of acute scurvy. The onset
            of this may be so rapid that the classical signs of scurvy may be absent. Sudden death,
            sudden unconsciousness, sudden shock or sudden spontaneous bruising and haemorrhage
            (including brain and retinal haemorrhages) may occur. Haemorrhage and bruising in such
            cases can be wrongly attributed to the ‘battered baby syndrome’.”—Dr Kalokerinos MD (Medical Pioneer of the 20th
            century p186

      • AutismDadd

        Your best post ever. Too bad you blocked me and can’t receive my compliment.

    • AutismDadd

      So you want to prevent debate? What are you afraid of?

      • Marisa Conover

        I’m not afraid of anyone; I’m here to create public awareness to consumers who may be unaware of their right under Federal and State Law to Informed Consent, which includes the right to refuse any treatment or drug. The last thing healthcare industry trolls want on social media and/or predatory healthcare workers in a clinical environment, is an informed consumer who understands, is aware of and exercises their rights under the LAW….

      • Ron Roy

        The truth.

        • suz norkan

          Marisa, understandably doesn’t want to be bothered by the pharma trolls pushing mandatory vax!

          However, it’s those like falseangel and dumb dumb who are too witless to do anything other than spout parroted propaganda, and who ‘block’ so they can remain ‘blissfully blind’ to the truth!

    • https://disqus.com/home/channel/provaxvsantivaxadebate/ Dumb Dumb

      Or you could just manually ignore them yourself.

  • Tumbleweeds

    Pretty sure autism is caused by Hillary’s emails.

  • shay simmons

    Yes, by all means lets launch a full investigation into the purported link between the US vaccine schedule and autism, if only to shut the Dilophosaurus in Chief up. It will find the same relation the other 24,000 previous vaccine safety studies have found; in other words, zilch.

    • Ron Roy

      24,000 studies? I don’t care if it was 24 million studies. They were all financed by the MEDICAL MAFIA so their credibility is ZERO.

      • shay simmons

        All the more reason to have a hearing so you and your foolish fellow-travelers can wail and gnash your teeth at the results.

      • Kevin

        “I don’t care” well that just about sums it up for you Roy.

        • Ron Roy

          Kevin? Kevin? OMG it’s Joe or is it Neil or Josephine. I see you’re back on your medication. Now don’t over do it this time get plenty of rest in between comments. I like your new moniker Kevin.

    • AutismDadd

      24,000 vaccinated vs unvaccinated studies? Tell us shaynus why do we need 24,000 studies to find what you’d claim is an obvious truth?

    • Ron Roy

      9 shills I’ll have to add a couple more to the catalogue of shills I’ll be posting on Facebook.

    • AutismDadd

      24,000 studies? Get real. Supply even 1,000 of them. Why would 24,000 need to be done?

      • acumenata

        Maybe because a portion of the general public are slow learners. Regardless the product being tested, having massive data on safety and efficacy is far better than forming assumptions based a small amount of data. The more testing you do, the more accurate the knowledge and conclusions will be.

        • AutismDadd

          That isn’t massive data, its massive fraud

          • acumenata

            That’s a massive conspiracy theory you’ve got going. So, in your imagination, all of the researchers who have studied the issue—including the independents and peer review boards—are somehow in cahoots with whoever ‘they’ are at the top of your pyramid. Must be difficult to organize.

            The massive fraud in this is Wakefield. That’s been thoroughly exposed and proved at multiple levels, in and out of the courts.

          • AutismDadd

            Hilarious. Another person who is media fed. Medical consensus is the real conspiracy. It has been long decided that the benefits of vaccine outweigh they damage they do. Wakefield et al was a serious threat in that he was telling the public. The public realized they had been conned all along and that stories parents told was true. In order to quash this upheaval the British Government once again told a series of lies and threatened 13 medical professionals including renown gastro experts John Walker Smith and Dr Wakefield. In regard to research, most sets out to disprove the link, NOT prove it. And meta-analysis is using a set of studies that found no connection (by design) and conclude once again, no connection.

          • acumenata

            Sorry to burst your moment of mirth. I’m arguably one of the least media fed individuals on this discussion board. I’d be willing to place a cash bet on that.

            In honor of the topic du jour, let’s make our wager something in the £400K range.

          • AutismDadd

            Stick it mate. Get on with posting more rubbish

          • acumenata

            You’re going to have to come up with something more substantial than “stick it” if you want to attempt defending Wakefield.

          • AutismDadd

            He doesn’t need defending, he just needs a fair trial with no interference from the GMC

  • Crystal

    I bet his kids were vaccinated though! I will continue to vaccinate my children!Do u know Y these diseases are so rare nowadays?? Because of vaccines!!! If everyone were to stop vaccinating their children we would see a tremendous outbreak again! I’m sure ppl would’ve given an arm and a leg to have these vaccines back in the day when they were watching their children die from these horrific deadly diseases. We honestly shouldn’t take advantage of how far we’ve come in preventing these diseases by just stopping them completely I refuse to go back in history when we should continue to move forward. And we’re not talking just seeing your child pass away we’re talking extreme pain and suffering if they catch one of these diseases. There’s a large number of people who are choosing not to vaccinate well last year there was a measles outbreak this year it could be polio please don’t be the reason we see a comeback of these diseases please vaccinate your children if they can be vaccinated!

    • Ron Roy

      Even if you want to believe vaccines prevented anything they caused diseases that are far worst; Guillian- Barre Syndrome, cancers, MS, CIDP, ( and many more nerve related diseases ) thrombocytopenia, arthritis, diabetes, autism and many other brain related problems because of the brain inflammations caused by vaccines, allergies etc.etc.

  • Kevin

    It’s amazing president elect Trump is going to find a link showing vaccination causes Autism WOW am I glad that I don’t live in the U.S.A. and guess what Mr Trump,vaccination does NOT cause Autism.

    • Ron Roy

      Guess what Kevin vaccines CAUSE autism.

      • Kevin

        HA HA HA are you related to Herbert?

        • Ron Roy

          HA HA HA who in the hell is Herbert? Couldn’t be a comedian. I though you were the only comedian here.

          • Kevin

            Well if you believe that vaccinations cause Autism,then you truly are the comedian here.

          • Ron Roy

            Joe you’re parroting what all the other shills are saying. Get back into bed and leave the computer alone.

  • Marisa Conover

    Kids are being put at risk of autism in utero before they are even born! This science based study confirmed that pregnant women who took SSRI Antidepressant drugs later into their pregnancy had a whopping 87% increased risk of having an autistic baby….http://www.livescience.com/53086-antidepressants-during-pregnancy-raise-autism-risk.html

  • Marisa Conover

    Pharma Exec whistleblower Gwen Olsen….https://www.youtube.com/watch?v=VKYkZkwWAJU

  • Marisa Conover

    Journalists at ProPublica put together a data base of US Doctors who receive money from the Drug Companies. You can plug the name of your Doctor into the Data Base to see if they are getting money and posing a conflict of interest with regard to you or your family’s care…..https://projects.propublica.org/docdollars/